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    XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

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    answerawake

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    XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by answerawake on Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:56 pm

    So after seeing the trailer for XenoBlade Chronicles X on the Wii U it felt very much like XenoSaga.

    I was wondering, in your opinion, how are XenoBlade and XenoSaga alike? I have not played XenoBlade so I was just wondering. I just love the XenoSaga storyline so much and am dying for XenoSaga 4 which may never happen so I was just wondering if XenoBlade is something I should get into? (I have only played about 15 minutes of XenoGears as well if that makes any difference)

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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by Guest on Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:25 pm

    Xenoblades story is like a bad version of Xenogears story. But the gameplay is fun.
    It is nothing alike Xenosaga. It has a whole different setting and boring charakters.

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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by InsaneChronos on Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:54 pm

    Totally agree with 7om.
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    RadicalDreamer

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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by RadicalDreamer on Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:38 pm

    If you're expecting Xenosaga/Xenogears level of epic, stop right there.
    But Xenoblade is an enjoyable jRPG with a huge world. Just... do not expect the same level of story, lore and character complexity. The bigger focus is exploration, not story. Still, some people who don't know about Saga and Gears seemed to greatly enjoy the plot and characters so I guess it's great enough for a jRPG. Some people who do know about Gears and Saga have different opinions too :
    - "the plot is weaker in Blade"
    - "the plot is more focused than in Gears/Saga and therefore, better executed"


    IMO, there is truth in both. In the end, I feel like Gears/Saga, despite their flaws, were more interesting, genuine and sticked more with me than Blade. Blade isn't flawless though. I mean, outside the story/characters. Quests are dull for example. Menu screen is a mess. The game is bugged. Some people just do not like the battle system. Melia's AI sucks so much she's unplayable as a companion character (she's great as a lead, always pick her as lead). Inventory is limited. No bestiary (can be annoying for such a huge game... and a missed opportunity for gratuitous lore info, like FF12 did). The
    Spoiler:
    Meckonis
    part is a PAIN and disappointment (story gets a bit better there though, and there are a few good location tracks and one good tiny location).

    If you're familiar with Final Fantasy, think of Xenoblade as Final Fantasy 12 (light story, big maps, MMOlike, hunt/fetch quests *and Blade has the latter to the point of people getting tired of the game so be careful with those*... minus the political story *Blade is very anime/shonen*, proper speaking non anime characters *they're underexplored in both games though, but in Blade, they're more simplistic by choice I think* and "unfinished game" business). Xenosaga as a better FF13. And Xenogears as FF7's sister game.
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    salut hurricane

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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by salut hurricane on Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:45 pm

    *revives old topic because I am terrible*
    I have a bit of a problem when it comes to having a thread that pits one game against its compadres. It really shouldn't be like that. Yes, I will agree that Xenoblade's storyline does not go as deeply as its predecessors did, but does that mean the game's story is trash? I'd argue it doesn't. Rather I see Xenoblade as something much more accessible as an entertaining platform. And while it's not an Art House film rife with symbolism and complex allegories, it doesn't have to be that way to be considered a great piece. In fact I'd say Takahashi is cutting straight to the chase in conveying his point, which I will get to a little further down. Just because our beloved creators Soraya Saga and Tetsuya Takahashi have changed their style of storytelling/game designing doesn't make whatever it is they make any better or any less. It makes it different, and because it is different it has to be examined differently with different expectations. Personally, I applaud them for trying to break away from the style they were restricted to before, and are exploring new ways of expressing their ideas.

    So back to what I wanted to discuss.

    Xenogears, Xenosaga, and even Xenoblade tackle one really big theme, and that's letting people take control of their own fates/lives. Each of the games tackles it in its own special way, and sometimes one might resonate with you more than the others. But clearly this is an issue Takahashi is very concerned about because he's dedicated all these years to making stories that are about this whole struggle. So to answer your question answerawake, if what you were looking for was another story about a group of people struggling to find autonomy in a world dominated by higher powers, Xenoblade might be worth a try for you. But keep in mind that Xenoblade is a completely different game from Saga and Gears, and that even comparing Saga to Gears in a "which is better or worse" kind of style is unfair. Blade's execution is different from Xenogears in that the characters do not have an encyclopedia's worth of backstory, and its execution is different from Xenosaga as the story is not pushed forward most strongly by a series of relationships (Jr to Albedo, Shion to Kosmos). Go into it open minded, and try not to be limited on what your definition of a Xeno game "should/should not" be. Instead, see it as another piece that expresses Takahashi's interest in human autonomy and being free from religious/higher power's control. Because that's cool, and laser swords that get 30 feet long are neat too.
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    katimus_prime
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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by katimus_prime on Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:50 pm

    In agreement with Sal here on this.


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    Neosmith

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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by Neosmith on Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:53 am

    It's an unfortunate fact that a lot of titles are judged by their relation to their predecessors. If Xenoblade retained the Monado title, I'm sure people that went ballistic on it because it wasn't part of the classic Xeno-verse(s) yet had Xeno- in the title would've been more receptive or less belligerent.
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    katimus_prime
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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by katimus_prime on Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:19 am

    The thing is that when it came out, Takahashi and Monolith said that the emphasis had been put on the gameplay for XB, so the same type of story couldn't be told.  It was what they said.  They didn't hide it.  They also never hid the fact that yeah, it was going to be titled "Monado: The Beginning of the World."

    The marketing decision to append Xeno- to it was publicly and transparently announced.  It should not have been a surprise to someone following the news.  No one who was paying any attention whatsoever was being tricked.  

    I've been a fan of Monolith since I was 16.  I am 32 as of this posting. I've never seen a bunch of "old school" fans who've supposedly "been there from the beginning" be so obtuse.  And I mean, people are absolutely free to have their own opinions on things, sure, but I have just as much right to dissent.  I think having an elitist outlook about a video game series that decries elitism in 3 out of 3 of its titles is a beautiful, perhaps even tragically beautiful, case of having missed the point.


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    stitchedmoon

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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by stitchedmoon on Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:34 am

    @Kat:


    OK, my two cents may not even be relevant here since I've only really seen about 15 minutes of Xenoblade plus whatever secondhand fandom smoke I absorbed from XU and tumblr.  Also, I'm what hardcore gamers would probably consider "not a real fan" of the Xeno-series anyway, for reasons.  I respect everyone's right to have opinions, but like.  Even if Xenoblade is a departure in style or substance from the earlier games, it seems like it has brought together an entire new generation of fans along with people who've been following the series since Gears (like Katimus here).  Since Blade came out I've seen a new wave of interest in a fandom that's been pretty small, scattered, and drifting apart for a while now.  And as far as I can tell, the game is entertaining and successful enough to have its main character featured in freakin' Smash, for chrissake.

    tbh I don't know if some of the Blade-hate comes from this idea that Xeno games have to be a closely guarded secret or maybe even some resentment of all these new kids stomping on our lawn.  I know there is legitimate criticism for the game itself, but there's plenty of criticism for Gears and Saga, too.  I remember reading back when XS was coming out, there was the same sort of noise from people who had played Xenogears that it'd be too mainstream or pandering or whatever, and there are still a lot of people who think it's a crappy game and/or not a worthy heir to Xenogears.  There's always going to be opposition to things that are new or different, and some of that opposition may be valid.  But it's been said before in different circumstances that we're kind of too small a fandom to be torn apart by elitism like this.  I, for one, am pretty much only here because Xenosaga, but I appreciate all of you guys and I think we can only really benefit from being more inclusive and maybe setting aside some of our assumptions about what a "true" Xeno game (or a "true" Monolith game) has to be.

    That's just my uninformed, slightly hung-over opinion tho.


    Last edited by stitchedmoon on Mon May 02, 2016 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    RadicalDreamer

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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by RadicalDreamer on Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:38 am

    @katimus_prime wrote:The thing is that when it came out, Takahashi and Monolith said that the emphasis had been put on the gameplay for XB, so the same type of story couldn't be told.  It was what they said.  They didn't hide it.  They also never hid the fact that yeah, it was going to be titled "Monado: The Beginning of the World."

    The marketing decision to append Xeno- to it was publicly and transparently announced.  It should not have been a surprise to someone following the news.  No one who was paying any attention whatsoever was being tricked.  

    I've been a fan of Monolith since I was 16.  I am 32 as of this posting. I've never seen a bunch of "old school" fans who've supposedly "been there from the beginning" be so obtuse.  And I mean, people are absolutely free to have their own opinions on things, sure, but I have just as much right to dissent.  I think having an elitist outlook about a video game series that decries elitism in 3 out of 3 of its titles is a beautiful, perhaps even tragically beautiful, case of having missed the point.

    Well, sure, Takahashi was honest (sort of). But it doesn't mean I have to love the new path he chose to take. To be honest, it's more some people in the (new) fanbase I have a problem with. And I'm bitter over the success of a game like Xenoblade, I have to admit. Because I don't love it like I did Saga and Gears (and I tried to like it more, believe me... which doesn't mean I hate it, I think I expressed my opinion on the game before)... and yet, it gets all the attention and praise while I'm still kind of waiting for a Xenogears european port or remake that will probably never happen. Xenosaga was also unfairly shortened and butchered and this too will probably never get fixed. But Xenoblade will get a 3DS port, maybe a HD remake one of these days... and it gets to be in the very popular Smash fighting game. And this in what... 4 years ? In a way, I feel kind of proud of Takahashi for managing this... but in another way... I don't care much for it and it makes me a bit sad (that's my reaction to Shulk and co being in Smash... kind of amazed/weirded out for a Takahashi game being represented in that game but also kind of meh because I don't fan over Blade the way I do Xenogears or Saga, not to mention Blade is different from them... it doesn't carry the same weight and meaning to me because of this).

    The Xenoblade era reminds me a bit of the time I quit the Final Fantasy series (for Xenosaga, ironically)... because FF12 failed to captivate me like the previous titles did (and yes, I played FF12 to the end... and enjoyed exploring Ivalice at the time... but it wasn't enough). I didn't need to wait for FF13 (in fact, I was pretty much okay with FF13 because I wasn't emotionally involved in the series anymore).

    For me, it's not about being "obtuse" or "elitist", it's about being not as interested as before... and therefore, feeling disappointed, bitter and a little annoyed. I'm not going to like every single thing Takahashi or any artist creates. If it stops feeling compelling to me, then I'll feel disappointment and express that and why. I feel the same about Tim Burton for example. I also noticed that people have a love/hate relationship with the band Coldplay... mostly because of the fact that they changed style over time. I myself, don't know how I feel exactly about their new album. Old fans hated Mylo Xyloto for being too pop and mainstream (Rihanna). I personally think their old songs had indeed more "meat" to them, but I like this album for being so... energetic and bright. First timers apparently hated X&Y (it's my favorite album, personally) for introducing subtle electro sounds.

    I don't think it's wrong to stop liking (or liking less...) what an artist does. When style or substance change, there is a chance you won't like the new thing. And that's okay. Same with the Xeno games. Or the FF games.

    As for you never witnessing this type of backlash... Shin Megami Tensei versus Persona ? It's the exact same phenomenon, I think.

    Even if Xenoblade is a departure in style or substance from the earlier games, it seems like it has brought together an entire new generation of fans along with people who've been following the series since Gears (like Katimus here). Since Blade came out I've seen a new wave of interest in a fandom that's been pretty small, scattered, and drifting apart for a while now.
    It created the Xenoblade fandom to me. Which is a different thing from the Gears and Saga fandom (why does Godsibb doesn't have more Blade fans after all ? That new wave of fans... Maybe because it feels more like a Xenosaga site... ). It can create interest for the old games, it's true, but it's not like this happens frequently, from what I've seen.

    It's an unfortunate fact that a lot of titles are judged by their relation to their predecessors. If Xenoblade retained the Monado title, I'm sure people that went ballistic on it because it wasn't part of the classic Xeno-verse(s) yet had Xeno- in the title would've been more receptive or less belligerent.

    I guess that's true, overall. But on the other end, I was disappointed in and disliked Soma Bringer (Takahashi/Soraya Saga/Mitsuda post Xenosaga game on the DS which, I think, inspired Xenoblade in some ways) for being strangely bland and repetitive coming from this particular team and it wasn't named after the old Xeno games at all. For people like me, I think it goes beyond the Xeno name. It's about those people, those artists, who used to make me think and care... and this unfortunately changed after Xenosaga ended.
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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by katimus_prime on Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:52 pm

    I think a lot of my annoyance comes from the fact that a lot of my Xenoblade friends pointedly don't feel comfortable enough to come on here and post, because it is a guaranteed argument.  Honestly, one of the reasons I hadn't replied on this thread since it was posted in June is because debate is draining and I've been working hard and have gotten sick.  It's one thing to explain yourself and come to an enlightened understanding, and RD, I think you always do a really good job of backing up your arguments.  Those are all really valid points, and a lot of your stuff is really well thought out and in the middle most of the time.  

    What I don't want happening here is for XU to slip into XenoTen's "Eeeew, Monado" atmosphere, which I had absolutely no respect for.  What does this mean?  If I see something, I'm going to say something, and that something might be a little salty.  That's pretty much it.  The frequency of this happening is probably not going to be high, because I am busy and sick and I usually am not this riled up enough to fight.  A lot of the people here simply haven't played Blade or just feel indifferently about it enough not to want to fight, so trash-talking of Xenoblade in the Xenoblade section has become a thing, apparently?  Can we un-make this a thing, please?  

    If you need to rant, we do have a rant section. XenoTen is down and RPGCouncil is down and this is down and that is down, and I realize that, as fans, we all need places to roost, but I don't see anyone trashing any of the other games in their respective sections.


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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by kare_reiko on Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:03 am

    Well Kossy was in many Namco games, and what? Nothing good from it didn't turn out.
    People bitched when Xenosaga came out because it wasn't Xenogears, "oh good it's too colorfull" "Oh, it's isn't deep like xenogears" etc.
    Don't miss what "Fans" treat miss Soraya while Xenosaga was made.
    Now we have Xenoblade and all of it it's again.
    Xenoblade is great fantasy RPG, not flat in both story and characters, it's just like in Xenosaga, you don't see it at first glance.
    Days of creating community for games and movies aren't o the same level as they was few years ago. Now people don't make sites, blogs for games like it was 10 years ago. They talk about Xenoblade on FB, gamefaq and don't feel to need search different place to talk about it, but they still enjoy and talk about Xenoblade. I know 4-5 pople like that from my country that didn't play Xenosaga or Gears.
    Ok, no time, I had to work on XS animation...
    Kat don't get angry Wink, take a break and rest Smile


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    RadicalDreamer

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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by RadicalDreamer on Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:56 am

    @katimus_prime wrote:
    What I don't want happening here is for XU to slip into XenoTen's "Eeeew, Monado" atmosphere, which I had absolutely no respect for.

    I understand what you mean.

    People bitched when Xenosaga came out because it wasn't Xenogears, "oh good it's too colorfull" "Oh, it's isn't deep like xenogears" etc.
    Don't miss what "Fans" treat miss Soraya while Xenosaga was made.

    That's true. But at the time, Xenosaga first was supposed to be a real prequel to Xenogears. People were seriously disappointed that it wasn't. It's kind of understandable... knowing how Xenogears was left incomplete forever, never to be touched again by Square. This might happen again with the Xenoblade fans about Xenoblade X... maybe. I've seen someone like that on Gamefaq who already declared Xenoblade X inferior because... nothing can't top Xenoblade apparently. That's... hard to say since the game isn't out yet. And of course, I've seen many people who are in serious denial that Xenoblade X won't have anything to do with Xenoblade directly. Despite Nintendo having told us. I can expect the "Xenogears versus Saga" (or Chrono Trigger versus Cross... which was kind of similar) rivalry thing coming back... expect between Blade and Cross, this time.
    And, yeah, the way Soraya Saga was treated ? Absolutely disgusting. I wasn't there at the time but... I've heard of it.


    Xenoblade is great fantasy RPG, not flat in both story and characters, it's just like in Xenosaga, you don't see it at first glance.
    I don't think it is exactly the case, imo. Story and characters are mostly simplistic, to the point... in Xenoblade. Xenosaga, however, was a beast... much like Xenogears (maybe even more complex and detailed actually). That's not to say Xenoblade doesn't have its moments. But this game wasn't done the way Xenogears and Saga were done at all. The appeal of Xenoblade isn't the same either and it shows by just looking at what the fandom gets excited about (the open world/big maps mostly).

    Gears and Saga were a story first... a story Takahashi really cared for and wanted to tell, apparently (a story he apparently will never completely let go of... since he keeps re-using the same tropes here and there). Gameplay came second. Xenoblade was a concept first (the 2 giants becoming worlds to live in... and is one of the few things that I find truly original about Xenoblade), the first (well second technically, Soma Bringer being the first) step towards Takahashi's new ambition (create big worlds for players to get lost into)... and story and characters obviously came last.

    On top of it, Takahashi has the desire to appeal to the mainstream now. He probably has many reasons (gaming is more expensive, human desire for popularity...). In any case, that means he won't take much risks anymore when it comes to his games. Open worlds are currently popular. Most gamers don't want complicated stories in their games, they want something that feel familiar and easy to get. He wants to please this kind of audiance. It's currently more than safe to do so. And maybe he really does like stuff like Skyrim. I do get the appeal of open world rpgs myself. I like them and it was my reason for actually buying Xenoblade (and Skyrim) in the first place. I didn't come for story/characters, I came for exploration. But, still, because I became a fan of Xeno/Takahashi because of his stories and characters in the first place (and the music)... I automatically feel more attached to Xenogears and Saga and I feel sad that his newer games don't have the same impact on me (maybe the next one will surprise me... who knows). And I feel even sadder to think that... nowadays, finding games, rpgs, with stories that feel impactful is extremely rare. I heard Nier is one of those rarity but I have yet to buy it and see for myself.

    Still, while I think Xenoblade is one of his weakest effort (with Soma Bringer) at story and characters... it makes me smile a bit that he's talented enough to make Xenoblade's story and characters at least enjoyable enough to the jRPG audiance... and even beyond (though I met a french gamer once who told me he/she thought the story and characters were pretty weak but the rest was pretty fun *this person also played the other Xeno games but didn't like them because "gameplay should come before story" ... I'm not like that... when I fall in love with a game, it's generally because of different things... I don't have a set rule... it can be the concept, the gameplay, the story, the characters... plus other things like the music, art style... I think I judge games the way I judge any other work of art... I can adore flawed things and be indifferent to supposedly flawless works *an example of this, I didn't enjoy Citizen Kane that much and even hated the main character, yet see how acclaimed this movie is... and for, I admit, legit reasons*... it's all depends on how it makes me feel in the end*). I enjoyed a few characters and moments myself.
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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by salut hurricane on Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:08 am

    I dunno RD…you’️re making Xenoblade seem soulless compared to the other games. Especially when you’️re saying that Takahashi is cashing in. Is there an interview where Takahashi said he wanted to appeal to “mainstream gaming”? Do other people outside of the JRPG circles even consider Xenoblade part of the “mainstream” gaming circle? Because honestly in my own experience I have never met another Xenoblade (let alone Xenosaga/Xenogears) fan IRL. Game store clerks just stare at me like, “Lol what’️s a Xenoblade is it Final Fantasy”??

    Also, as I stated in my earlier post, the comparisons you’️re making between Xenoblade and the rest of the games aren’️t really fair. While I can understand why Xenosaga and Gears share a lot of common ground and can (to some extent) carry over for comparison, Blade is a completely different breed. Even its storyline is structured completely differently from the previous two games. Saga and Gears were very explicitly personal— they were focused on people, and their relationships with one another. Gears was about three or four people over the course of several lifetimes whereas Saga was more about a single lifetime with a bigger cast. Xenoblade? It’️s even larger in scope. Yeah, the story is told through the eyes of a bunch of people you call your party, but the big focus is the magic sword and the giant robots that made the world. All of the conflict stems from three objects, not the individuals that inhabit the world. Because of this method Takahashi can’️t spend time fleshing out characters like he did in Saga and Gears, because that would be an unfathomable amount of exposition that jams into the game’️s personalized momentum.

    When you have a person-based story like Saga and Gears, you can have person-based issues addressed. Saga dealt a lot with parenting with MOMO/Juli/Ziggy, dealt a lot with relationships with Shion/KOSMOS/Kevin, filial love with Jr/Albedo/Gaignun, robots-are-people-too, and so on. Blade can’️t talk about those things because its story structure is about larger scale issues such as autonomy of destiny. They are fundamentally different. Neither game is better or worse than the other. Saga and Gears, as I stated before, are easier to get into because it’️s literally focusing on the people you are watching onscreen. I had the same problem when I initially did not like FF12— like you RD, I thought the game wasn’️t very deep. Until I sat down and saw the larger trends at play: it was about nationhood, whole ethnicities, nationalities and so on interacting as giant political bodies like in a history class. Ashe’️s story was more as a statesman and not a lady character, the story about diplomacy and not personal trauma. In fact I would argue that FF12 was all about pulling aside interest in the individual (and their desires for vengeance) and looking out for the interests of an entire world! Xenoblade? It’️s not about Shulk specifically, or any singular character. It’️s about a planet. So is it really fair to call one more “deep” than the other simply because their very intentions are different?

    As well, what risks is Takahashi missing out on? What risks did he take in making games like Gears and Saga? Did Saga take less risks than Gears? Was it the other way around? What even is a risk when you’️re making video games? Does someone have to be sexually assaulted? Do you have to have lots of blood but omg, there has to be a reason right? Do you need a religious entity that you can sorta call God in a game but not really because giant robots? Do you see how out of hand this can get? Because I highly doubt someone as respected as Tetsuya Takahashi would outright state in an interview that he has no intention of making games he loves but would rather cash in mindlessly because it’️s “More safe”. Unless you have an interview that says so, then I’️ll believe you.

    Since when did the appeal of Xenoblade have anything to do with… anything? People can get excited over whatever they want. It doesn’️t help that Xenoblade fans generally feel extremely unwelcome on this site and can’️t even communicate to each other here because of the environment. Where was it stated that Takahashi was not focusing on story? Especially to the extent that he basically tossed a bunch of tropes together and said “oh lol we’️re done”? Did he literally hash the entirety of Xenoblade’️s character, story, and so on in a single night because “oh lol it’️s all about the size of the world?” or did he simply change the intent of his game from character-issues to humanity-concerned issues?

    Now I do respect your opinions RD but I’️ve been reading your previous posts inside of the Xenoblade sub category and while your criticisms of the game are fair for the most part, the other comments you have been making may be a contributing factor as to why Xenoblade fans have not been congregating on this site. XenoUnderground serves as a hub for all Xeno or even Takahashi fans. As denizens of this site we have to be fair to each other and try to validate everyone’️s views. While I can understand why you have Xenogears and Saga held higher in your perspective, we have to acknowledge that newcomers are still just as welcome, and even try to foster excitement for things they’️re excited about too. It’️s about making friends that have common interests, not walking into someone’️s common interest with you and tearing it down saying the older thing was better.

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    Kat is right.

    Post by Gottfried on Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:43 pm

    Blade fans (Most of which also happen to be gears fans. Well, fans of half of gears anyways) don't come here because of the obnoxious saga elitism. You know, the kind that drove sorayasaga to attempt suicide?

    Xenoblade X is coming soon, and you guys might just get a resurgence, if you don't crap in your hands and throw it all over the place to scare them away. So I will give it a try.

    A huge problem is, for some reason, saga fans just cant seem to comprehend that many of us have actually played all the games, and really dont think Xenosaga, the franchise that fired half of monolithsoft for not being publisher yes men is really all that great. In fact, we think it kind of sucks. Including the story, and the design was a massive step down from gears, and may have well been a pre rendered background game a la Squeenix's typical psx fare, instead of an actual designed and interacted with game world like gears. Actually, they were able to do just that with incredible ease with the ds games. Sagas world design was worthless and completely inconsequential, the exact opposite of gears, which had the player rotating the camera and platforming across every nook and cranny for chests and other goods. Saga was a series of a decent, horrible, and allright games attached to cutscenes, and its enduring legacy consists of an endless flow of buttfloss figurines and disturbing body pillows merchandise. Those KOSMOS pillows are simply so that they can remember how the story was Soooooo deep I am sure.

    Xenoblades lore and world is not nearly as shallow as constantly stated here, like any other xeno game, it only appears that way when you don't know what it is founded on, we find it baffling saga fans can be so proud of their literary allusions in saga, yet be so completely ignorant of them in blade, which incorporated them all the way down to the gameplay mechanics and power up systems (A game where characterization is actually a power up, only from Takahashi). Maybe its because blade is subtle and doesn't hit you over the head with an obvious hammer by naming itself after the philosophers works?

    Did anyone even think of googling a Monad, Monade or Monado? Ever? No, it seems like they just pretty much instantly assumed Xenoblade was about a boy with a magic sword. Because taking Xeno games at face value is a thing people want to do I guess.



    This is the first Manuscript page of Gottfreid Leibniz's most famous philosophical work, 'The Monadology', written in the early 1700's. Like Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche was to Xenosaga, Gottfreid Leibniz's philosophical works are the basis of Xenoblades story and world lore... And frankly, he was vastly more interesting. Unlike Saga, his philosophy, and other incarnations of the concept of the monad, are also integrated into the gameplay mechanics. I am not going to go in depth with this one, as its better to read about it, and then rewatch what happens and what dialog is said in Xenoblades 'surface' story.

    Other important uses of the concept of Monads in the story, are ancient greek philosophy, particularly the pythagoreans, of the Monad being the one supreme being, who could make other gods. Their religion was also involved in their mathematics.

    The pythogoreans believed the one supreme being, the beginning of all, was the Monad, the monad begat the dyad (getting it yet? the one, made the two?) Which begat the numbers, which begat the points (a spot in space occupied by an element. Ringing any bells NOW? Seriously, this part is actually explained in a game cutscene by the Monad itself.)

    It also uses the gnostic version of the Monad, and the fact the pythagoreans condemned gnosticism with the way the gnostics treated the monad. Should be getting an idea now about which One is gnostic, and which One is pythagorean now.

    And the last important basis of the Game is on functional programming, particularly on structures in functional programming called Monads.

    a monad is a structure that represents computations defined as sequences of steps: a type with a monad structure defines what it means to chain operations, or nest functions of that type together. This allows the programmer to build pipelines that process data in steps, in which each action is decorated with additional processing rules provided by the monad.

    This basically explains shulk throughout the entire game.

    Shulk doesnt have a sword, he has physical manifestation of a user i/o device that has access to communicate to the Monad.

    Shulk doesnt cut things, he edits them in two.
    Shulk doesnt see the future, he can see the points in space time where ether exists (1) and where there is no ether (0) by seeing where that ether has been, and what it is doing, he can predict where the ether will then be with the certainty of watching code run in a debugger, and modify it. He has a reality debugger.
    Shulk cant actually fight. His combat skill is nothing, and he doesnt physically do any of the cool things he does in the game. He programs them into existence.

    Zanza gave shulks corpse borrowed life and the monado, and root access to use the i/o interface as part of his plan to recover, escape and defeat the pythogoreans, er mechonis.

    Zanza's mistake was that he didnt count on, or care about shulk growing up to be a scientist and beginning to comprehend computer logic and functional programming with his exposure to the monado, the very things the world Klaus accidentally created was based on, and the concepts the monado ran on.

    And now Im going to leave before someone begins 'sagasplaining' how this is all just a coincidence and it doesnt 'count' because Takahashi didnt actually think about any of this when he was making Monado: Beginning of the world' and how modern Takahashi is just too stupid to purposefully link these philosophies and themes together, and its just a coincidence.... Again.

    The upcoming Xenoblade Chronicles X is very obviously another reboot to make a chapter of the Xeno story.

    Hopefully people can let saga go like we let gears go... Because it would be a shame to be stuck in the past the moment Takahashi finally realizes a chapter of his vision, unfettered, unshackled, and uncompromised. If its not constantly raining crap from a screeching fanbase, people may actually start discussing things Xeno again.


    Last edited by Gottfried on Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:26 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : sp corrections)
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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by katimus_prime on Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:42 pm


    Secular humanist blessings upon you, and welcome, Gottfried!

    I am actually really REALLY perturbed that the friends I've made in the Blade fandom have been intimidated away from XU due to elitism, and it's at the crux of why I want to take my bag and go home.

    Running my own phpbb3 board took a lot of work and time that I didn't have, and I pushed myself beyond my technical expertise trying to make a place people would feel welcome in, especially after XenoTen went under, so I've felt really betrayed by the whole Saga/Gears elitism thing. I almost wish I hadn't bothered.

    New policy:
    If peeps get antagonistic, I'm gonna start shooting these links at them.

    https://www.forumotion.com/ - If I can run XU out of forumotion, you can make your own little teaparty and not invite me.
    http://rpgcouncil.com/forums/index.php?/forum/6-xenogearsxenosaga/ - Eyy, look, there's another message board specifically dedicated to those two specific games!

    Srsly, though, thank you for showing up and laying down some truth, Gottfried. I really hope more Blade people start coming around and makin' legit fan noise that isn't infighting.


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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by stitchedmoon on Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:35 pm

    Basically what Kat said. As part of the staff on this site, I'd also like to say for the record that I don't wanna see any more hostility toward Xenoblade fans on here.  I've only played Xenosaga personally, but it bothers me when people hate on Xenoblade for whatever reason, and particularly upsets me that Blade fans are made to feel unwelcome here because of it.

    I mean, it was bad enough dealing with elitism within the Saga fandom before Blade came out.  You guys are like my internet family and I love you all, but I have very, very little tolerance for infighting and drama getting all up in my emotional baggage. >:C  I certainly think we as a combined fandom can enjoy the things we have in common and still talk about our differences in a civil manner without bashing each other, and I hope everyone here will respect that.

    tl;dr though.  Welcome to XU, Gottfried!


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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by Kire-Kitsune on Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:02 am

    As a newbie to this forum it is honestly disturbing to hear that these sort of conflicts exist at all. Last I checked, each of the Xeno games have been remarkable for one reason or another and I have always found the various literary concepts at play to bring real depth to them all. I figured the philosophical elements of Xenoblade in particular were obvious, seeing as how this series never names anything willy-nilly. Especially something as important to the story as the Monado, the backbone of the entire narrative. Also I don't see the point in bashing one game simply because another was more favorable to you.

    I came into each of these games fresh, taking them on as they were. Xenoblade really won me over, personally. While I prefer the space opera of Saga and the deep culture of Gears when it comes to tone, story to gameplay integration is paramount to what makes Xenoblade feel so fresh. The fantasy/sci fi setting of the Bionis and Mechonis is truly intoxicating, allowing the simple act of exploration a new dimension due to how one must take into account the unique geography and how to traverse it. More than most RPG's I've played, traveling about the titans feels like a real experience. The ability to see the future within the game rather than be told that Shulk can do so is genius. Too often I feel the abilities of the character during story and then during gameplay are much too disparate, but here, you are capable of as much in game as Shulk is out of it.

    This is where Blade shines. It's journey is as much yours as it is the script's, something Gears and Saga did not always understand. Personally, thus far, Xenogears is still my favorite, for more reasons than I have time to type. I've only played eps I and II of Saga but I adored what I played. (Mainly of I...II's gameplay is very repetitive.) Xenoblade is wonderful, but it feels like a teaser for the upcoming XBX. I love them all equally, but Blade sticks in my mind more often as late due to it's in depth gameplay and unique setting. It helps that I found it's cast endearing as opposed to grating. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to JRPG's featuring terrible characters that seem built to irritate, (Selphie from FF VIII gives me a god damned aneurism almost immediately as she appears on screen.) but this cast was simply fun to be with. I enjoyed their company with few exceptions.

    Anyway, I'm done rambling. Sorry if that was a little incoherent, I was just trying to get some of my thoughts out about the game and it's place in the meta-series.


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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by Gottfried on Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:58 pm

    @Kire-Kitsune wrote:As a newbie to this forum it is honestly disturbing to hear that these sort of conflicts exist at all. Last I checked, each of the Xeno games have been remarkable for one reason or another and I have always found the various literary concepts at play to bring real depth to them all. I figured the philosophical elements of Xenoblade in particular were obvious, seeing as how this series never names anything willy-nilly. Especially something as important to the story as the Monado, the backbone of the entire narrative. Also I don't see the point in bashing one game simply because another was more favorable to you.

    I came into each of these games fresh, taking them on as they were. Xenoblade really won me over, personally. While I prefer the space opera of Saga and the deep culture of Gears when it comes to tone, story to gameplay integration is paramount to what makes Xenoblade feel so fresh. The fantasy/sci fi setting of the Bionis and Mechonis is truly intoxicating, allowing the simple act of exploration a new dimension due to how one must take into account the unique geography and how to traverse it. More than most RPG's I've played, traveling about the titans feels like a real experience. The ability to see the future within the game rather than be told that Shulk can do so is genius. Too often I feel the abilities of the character during story and then during gameplay are much too disparate, but here, you are capable of as much in game as Shulk is out of it.

    This is where Blade shines. It's journey is as much yours as it is the script's, something Gears and Saga did not always understand. Personally, thus far, Xenogears is still my favorite, for more reasons than I have time to type. I've only played eps I and II of Saga but I adored what I played. (Mainly of I...II's gameplay is very repetitive.) Xenoblade is wonderful, but it feels like a teaser for the upcoming XBX. I love them all equally, but Blade sticks in my mind more often as late due to it's in depth gameplay and unique setting. It helps that I found it's cast endearing as opposed to grating. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to JRPG's featuring terrible characters that seem built to irritate, (Selphie from FF VIII gives me a god damned aneurism almost immediately as she appears on screen.) but this cast was simply fun to be with. I enjoyed their company with few exceptions.

    Anyway, I'm done rambling. Sorry if that was a little incoherent, I was just trying to get some of my thoughts out about the game and it's place in the meta-series.

    Oh man, Gears is still the greatest half epic ever. Square should forever be ashamed of pulling the plug on that game, to force them to work on the game whos success would end up comdemning an entire genre to de-evolution and marginalization. I still remember how Excited I was to put in that second disc, to continue the, pulse racing adventure where everything has finally come together, and gotten soooo exciting.... And then being stuck in a chair... Disc 2 was basically proto saga. Look, dont touch.

    Most Blade fans I know are old gears fans who were pretty dissapointed with the change in direction of saga. Gone was the ahead of its time level/world design, gone was exploring nooks and crannies, and rotating the camera to see the obstacle course you had to navigate to get to those chests. Gone as well was the vast overworld to explore... And no overworld is a huge screeching deal breaker for me.

    The focus on melodrama over plot didnt sit well with us either, nor did sitting through hours and hours of cutscenes focusing on jiggling boobs and panty flashes, ie namcobandai's marketing signature, and sagas entire and only merchandise legacy.

    Saga was a pretty huge shift in style from the games the team key future monolithsoft members had previously worked on, from ff6, to chrono trigger, to Xenogears- Xenogears was a snes design style rpg, evolved to the next level with the advanced technology, Saga was more in line with the emerging 'design' style we hated, the cutscene heavy, exploration nuetered, interaction restricted games, that played like bad commador rpg's using the power of the system to simply display really pretty backdrops and pre rendered movies- the staple of Squares Pre-rendered rpg era, and the design philosophy they still use today, even though they dont need to pre render anymore. (We'll see if FFXV trying to ape xenoblade manages to get them out of this rut. I doubt it, I get the strong feeling its mostly on rails, extremely restrictive in its 'freedom' and full of context sensitive BS, basically a theme park ride shallowly depicting the things its promising)

    On top of that, a lot of us strongly dislike the franchise because it was completely ruined from its original vision from a meddling smut peddling publisher, nearly destroyed monolithsoft, and nearly drove one of the best writers in RPG history to suicide, and after that, pretty much kept her from ever wanting to write for games again, at least credited, which is an incredible, terrible loss.

    Xenoblade was a return to form to the styles of games the members worked on before saga, and before the psx era 'de-evolution' of game design.
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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by Kire-Kitsune on Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:04 pm

    @Gottfried wrote:Oh man, Gears is still the greatest half epic ever. Square should forever be ashamed of pulling the plug on that game, to force them to work on the game whos success would end up comdemning an entire genre to de-evolution and marginalization. I still remember how Excited I was to put in that second disc, to continue the, pulse racing adventure where everything has finally come together, and gotten soooo exciting.... And then being stuck in a chair... Disc 2 was basically proto saga. Look, dont touch.

    Most Blade fans I know are old gears fans who were pretty dissapointed with the change in direction of saga. Gone was the ahead of its time level/world design, gone was exploring nooks and crannies, and rotating the camera to see the obstacle course you had to navigate to get to those chests.  Gone as well was the vast overworld to explore... And no overworld is a huge screeching deal breaker for me.

    The focus on melodrama over plot didnt sit well with us either, nor did sitting through hours and hours of cutscenes focusing on jiggling boobs and panty flashes, ie namcobandai's marketing signature, and sagas entire and only merchandise legacy.

    Saga was a pretty huge shift in style from the games the team key future monolithsoft members had previously worked on, from ff6, to chrono trigger, to Xenogears- Xenogears was a snes design style rpg, evolved to the next level with the advanced technology, Saga was more in line with the emerging 'design' style we hated, the cutscene heavy, exploration nuetered, interaction restricted games, that played like bad commador rpg's using the power of the system to simply display really pretty backdrops and pre rendered movies- the staple of Squares Pre-rendered rpg era, and the design philosophy they still use today, even though they dont need to pre render anymore. (We'll see if FFXV trying to ape xenoblade manages to get them out of this rut. I doubt it, I get the strong feeling its mostly on rails, extremely restrictive in its 'freedom' and full of context sensitive BS, basically a theme park ride shallowly depicting the things its promising)

    On top of that, a lot of us strongly dislike the franchise because it was completely ruined from its original vision from a meddling smut peddling publisher, nearly destroyed monolithsoft, and nearly drove one of the best writers in RPG history to suicide, and after that, pretty much kept her from ever wanting to write for games again, at least credited, which is an incredible, terrible loss.

    Xenoblade was a return to form to the styles of games the members worked on before saga, and before the psx era 'de-evolution' of game design.  

    While I agree that Gears was a more mechanically sound game and Namco's reign was deplorable, I must say that I do not mind the style of RPG that Saga took on. There is a level of enjoyment for me to be had in games of that kind, titles such as Final Fantasy X and Baten Kaitos. Xenosaga Episode 1, for instance, features a well composed, startegic evolution of Gears's combat system. This makes up the bulk of Saga's gameplay and it is suitably entertaining. There is a charm to focusing on mastering a battle system, setting your strategies into play (Which even went pre-battle, luring enemies into traps to further success in battle) and being rewarded with an addicting storyline. (For me at least) It brings to mind shades of Legend of Legaia and Grandia, two RPG's that feature some of my all time favorite combat systems.

    Even Gears featured a slightly limited form of interaction with it's environment, there being so few items to examine. While I loved the lateral movement, platforming and such, (Which brings pleasant memories of Wild Arms with it) it was a bit sad that I couldn't fiddle with my environment and get a text box here or an interactive piece of the environment a'la Grandia there.

    As I said however, there is a charm to limiting the forms of gameplay to simplify one's interaction. There felt like a more cohesive whole to the battling in Episode 1 that often felt more like a chore in Gears at times. (Though I enjoy it's combat quite a bit. And running around in a Gear is more fun than it has any right to be, lol)

    Blade, on the other hand, has none of this. Xenoblade is actually one of the more hideously complex RPG's I've played. Any one system is simple and breezy to use, yes, but there are so many systems to take into account. The arts, Skills and Linking them, Collectaepedia, Gem creation, Inventory management, Affinity Chart...and they all weave together to aid your abilities in battle. It's a beautiful web. They all require you to interact with the gameworld in each way, sidequesting, fighting, item collection, exploration-it all forms a single cohesive connection to the gameworld through useful, necessary gameplay systems. This creates a genuine link between me, the game world and the characters in it. It's really quite remarkable when you disect it like that, and it's why I hold the game in such high esteem.


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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by katimus_prime on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:20 pm

    I've spent half the night trying to figure out how to reply to this, but I'm having trouble.  What it boils down to is this: I love all three works, and I wouldn't be here if not for Gears and Saga (that means on this board as well as on this earth).  I'm not going to tear down one to build the other up.  I don't think Namco treated Monolith very respectfully during the development of XSII and III, but I still enjoy Saga very much, regardless of its literary worth or flawed gameplay.  Square kind of gave them the boot, too.  Nintendo has been the only publisher that seems to have treated Monolith as a studio well, at least from my perspective.  Namco's cash-grabs are cheap, especially post-Monolith split, and they spent a lot of time better spent on
    Spoiler:
    Ziggy and chaos and Richard and Hermann on the Anima Dungeon
    in XSIII.

    Since this discussion has gotten a little heavy, I've moved the topic to the Xeno Intersections section so that the Xenoblade section proper can be a tad more peaceful.


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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by Kire-Kitsune on Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:03 am

    @katimus_prime wrote:Since this discussion has gotten a little heavy, I've moved the topic to the Xeno Intersections section so that the Xenoblade section proper can be a tad more peaceful.

    I apologize if I contributed to making this topic too heavy, by the way. lol I didn't mean to steer it towards a three-way fight between Gears, Saga and Blade if I had, XP. Granted, I love all the games.Being that few series of games affect me as deeply as this and I have played a loooot of games. Except Megaman Legends, anyway. But Capcom has gone a long way to spoil my childhood lately. But I can't help dissecting them against each other here and there, it's in my nature, I think. Either way, sorry if I pushed it at all.


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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by katimus_prime on Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:05 am

    To be honest, this topic should have started off in and stayed in the intersections section to begin with. No harm done - I was just reminded that I needed to re-organize it. Please continue your discussion honorably if you wish!


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    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by Gottfried on Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:44 am

    @Kire-Kitsune wrote:
    @Gottfried wrote:Oh man, Gears is still the greatest half epic ever. Square should forever be ashamed of pulling the plug on that game, to force them to work on the game whos success would end up comdemning an entire genre to de-evolution and marginalization. I still remember how Excited I was to put in that second disc, to continue the, pulse racing adventure where everything has finally come together, and gotten soooo exciting.... And then being stuck in a chair... Disc 2 was basically proto saga. Look, dont touch.

    Most Blade fans I know are old gears fans who were pretty dissapointed with the change in direction of saga. Gone was the ahead of its time level/world design, gone was exploring nooks and crannies, and rotating the camera to see the obstacle course you had to navigate to get to those chests.  Gone as well was the vast overworld to explore... And no overworld is a huge screeching deal breaker for me.

    The focus on melodrama over plot didnt sit well with us either, nor did sitting through hours and hours of cutscenes focusing on jiggling boobs and panty flashes, ie namcobandai's marketing signature, and sagas entire and only merchandise legacy.

    Saga was a pretty huge shift in style from the games the team key future monolithsoft members had previously worked on, from ff6, to chrono trigger, to Xenogears- Xenogears was a snes design style rpg, evolved to the next level with the advanced technology, Saga was more in line with the emerging 'design' style we hated, the cutscene heavy, exploration nuetered, interaction restricted games, that played like bad commador rpg's using the power of the system to simply display really pretty backdrops and pre rendered movies- the staple of Squares Pre-rendered rpg era, and the design philosophy they still use today, even though they dont need to pre render anymore. (We'll see if FFXV trying to ape xenoblade manages to get them out of this rut. I doubt it, I get the strong feeling its mostly on rails, extremely restrictive in its 'freedom' and full of context sensitive BS, basically a theme park ride shallowly depicting the things its promising)

    On top of that, a lot of us strongly dislike the franchise because it was completely ruined from its original vision from a meddling smut peddling publisher, nearly destroyed monolithsoft, and nearly drove one of the best writers in RPG history to suicide, and after that, pretty much kept her from ever wanting to write for games again, at least credited, which is an incredible, terrible loss.

    Xenoblade was a return to form to the styles of games the members worked on before saga, and before the psx era 'de-evolution' of game design.  

    While I agree that Gears was a more mechanically sound game and Namco's reign was deplorable, I must say that I do not mind the style of RPG that Saga took on. There is a level of enjoyment for me to be had in games of that kind, titles such as Final Fantasy X and Baten Kaitos. Xenosaga Episode 1, for instance, features a well composed, startegic evolution of Gears's combat system. This makes up the bulk of Saga's gameplay and it is suitably entertaining. There is a charm to focusing on mastering a battle system, setting your strategies into play (Which even went pre-battle, luring enemies into traps to further success in battle) and being rewarded with an addicting storyline. (For me at least) It brings to mind shades of Legend of Legaia and Grandia, two RPG's that feature some of my all time favorite combat systems.

    Even Gears featured a slightly limited form of interaction with it's environment, there being so few items to examine. While I loved the lateral movement, platforming and such, (Which brings pleasant memories of Wild Arms with it) it was a bit sad that I couldn't fiddle with my environment and get a text box here or an interactive piece of the environment a'la Grandia there.

    As I said however, there is a charm to limiting the forms of gameplay to simplify one's interaction. There felt like a more cohesive whole to the battling in Episode 1 that often felt more like a chore in Gears at times. (Though I enjoy it's combat quite a bit. And running around in a Gear is more fun than it has any right to be, lol)

    Blade, on the other hand, has none of this. Xenoblade is actually one of the more hideously complex RPG's I've played. Any one system is simple and breezy to use, yes, but there are so many systems to take into account. The arts, Skills and Linking them, Collectaepedia, Gem creation, Inventory management, Affinity Chart...and they all weave together to aid your abilities in battle. It's a beautiful web. They all require you to interact with the gameworld in each way, sidequesting, fighting, item collection, exploration-it all forms a single cohesive connection to the gameworld through useful, necessary gameplay systems. This creates a genuine link between me, the game world and the characters in it. It's really quite remarkable when you disect it like that, and it's why I hold the game in such high esteem.

    Pushing a button and passively reading something describing something you should already be able to see is not interaction, it is the opposite of interaction. Books, are not interactive. WHile it can be interesting, and great for world/lore building, making it an important part to an immersive world lore (And something saga does very well), it is not interaction, which is active, it is passive. The simple ability to jump and actually navigate terrain on the players own terms, using the rule set layed out, makes gears infinitely more interactive with the world/level design, than say, simply pressing a button to go from one heavily restricted plane to another heavily restricted plane, thats called context sensitive actions, where you stand in a certain spot and press a button, and a series of events occurs, like climbing up a ladder, or jumping up boxes to get somewhere, yet its automatic and out of player control. Context sensitive actions can streamline a lot of unnecessary or mundane things, but when they start replacing main traversal mechanics, it becomes context sensitive garbage. Context sensitive garbage is NOT interaction, its a shortcut used by devs who dont know how, or dont have time, or just dont care, to actually program or design, an actual interactive system, and the design and vast quantity more testing to the world to make it worth utilizing. Because of this, Gears is a very 3d game via its environment, it really couldnt be done in 2d. Xenosaga, is a very 2d game, it can, and in fact, WAS converted to a 2d game.

    Xenoblade takes a much more interactive role in world building/lore building than Saga, rather than say, reading about the giants in a lengthy log, the player goes on a series of events, collecting artifacts, and clues along the way, leading them to multiple tombs, which eventually leads them to a hidden giants tomb in one of the first areas, where they explore and discover what happened to the giants.

    Saga didnt really have an evolved form of gears combat system. Saga was a pretty standard take on the active time battle system Makoto Shimamoto created earlier in FF, with some nice additions like boosts, and only cosmetic similarities to gears, such as the ability to call in A.G.W.S and to chain attacks using action points. While these are cosmetically similar to things done in gears, they are fundamentally different from a design perspective, which is why saga had a far more interesting battle system than gears. I think most people will agree Sagas battle system was more engaging than what gears used. Gears battle was cool and flashy, and well animated, but that was about it. The extent anyone really needed to do was use buttons enough times to unlock the most powerful deathblows and spam them. Gear combat was more interesting, but thats not saying much. The evolution of the combat used in gears can be seen in titles like project X zone. Gears wasnt really enjoyed by many that I know of for its combat system, particularly before the game opens up, many people will agree certain slogging sections definately made the combat seem like a chore. Saga 1 had pretty average jrpg combat, saga 2 was god awful, and 3 was pretty dang good (a running theme in 3, it is faaaaaaaar better than the other entries)... For standard jrpg battle systems.

    But they were all de-evolutions of Mr. Shimamoto's work in chrono triggers battle system, like most of Squares psx output was, these games had the players in a straight line on one side, and the enemies in a straight line on the other side. In chrono trigger the player placements were unique in each battle, which affected the strategy of what moves to use, as moves were tied to an area of effect, either around the player, in a straight line from the player to the enemy, in a cone in front of the player etc: On top of this, enemies actually moved, further adding a layer of strategy of what moves to use and when. Blade is the continuation of this system, adding the ability for the player party to move as well, streamlining mundane actions like normal attacks, to the player simply choosing to be close enough to be in range, and applying the active time system to each individual move as well as normal attacks, which was a god send in allowing the player to greatly speed up the length of battles, as was not having to load between battle arenas and the world map.
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    Kire-Kitsune

    Posts : 39
    Join date : 2015-03-02
    Age : 25
    Location : Somewhere in Ohio. I don't recommend it, 1 1/2 out of 5 stars. Boo.

    Re: XenoBlade vs XenoSaga

    Post by Kire-Kitsune on Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:10 pm

    I cannot fully disagree that the system in Gears and Saga was a devolution of Chrono Trigger, though I feel that there are merits to the systems regardless of how they compare to one another. I would like to mention that what I had hoped for was not descriptions of the environment as seen, but rather narration describing the atmosphere. Perhaps hidden elements that sound and visuals cannot communicate, such as smell, touch, minor details that the game cannot render. I come from a background of not just generally restrictive JRPG's, after all. Having played classics such as Fallout, Planescape Torment, Bladur's Gate and a little of the original Wasteland, I enjoy the well written descriptions that often simulated your character's experience. There is a wall between the character and I and that is perception.

    Xenogears was an excellent looking game as a modern update of the SNES JRPG template, but it was still incapable of rendering the finer details of an environment. All I'm saying is these sort of touches would be welcomed and it would let the characters breathe, a chance to speak, think and interact outside of when they stand in the right spot for the story to move along. The well made NPC interaction does much to alleviate this, especially Bledavik and it's festival. That was truly a living, breathing place that not even Xenoblade could recreate. (Hopefully, XBX's New Los Angeles can bring that back.) But even with that wonderfully realized setting I am still at a loss as to how my player character, Fei, feels about his surroundings. It's a crucial element to me, personally. The game may not explicitly need it and I'm sure one can argue as to it's exclusion. But I felt it all the same.

    Xenoblade, as I mentioned above, works through this problem by webbing together it's sytems and interactivity. Plus, due to the vastly improved visuals from it's PS1 counterpart, sussing out it's finer details only require an ounce of imagination to feel the humid heat in Makna Forest or the busy chatter of Colony 9's market district. On top of that, it's characters tend to  be a bit more talkative (again, largely through gameplay systems such as Heart-to-Hearts) and can give more understanding of their perspective than was often the case for Gears's characters outside of story sequences. I don't want to sound like I'm bashing the game, mind you. It simply was not a part of the design and the genuine depth of the characters make much of my argument null and void. However, that depth is in the long run. It's the here and now of the situation that I want expanded.

    Also, I do not mean to skip Xenosaga over in my analysis, but frankly I have to replay 2 and get around to 3. I cannot with clear conscience discuss in depth that which I haven't played in a while, besides Episode I.


    _________________
    "I think the destiny of all men is not to sit in the rubble of their own making but to reach out for an ultimate perfection which is to be had. At the moment, it is a dream. But as of the moment we clasp hands with our neighbor, we build the first span to bridge the gap between the young and the old. At this hour, it’s a wish. But we have it within our power to make it a reality. If you want to prove that God is not dead, first prove that man is alive."

    -Rod Serling, my hero.

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