Who are your least favorite characters?

by katimus_prime Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:31 pm

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Post n°1

Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by katimus_prime Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:31 pm

Pretty much what the title said. I could have sworn I'd made this thread before, but I guess not? I guess I didn't want to start out with a bunch of potential negativity? Either way, if folks still stay respectful, it should be fine. I hope? :curtain:

Anyway, not by virtue of actively disliking them, but the URTVs seem the least interesting to me, probably because they're all young-looking and every other fan spends all of their time on about them. Then again, I'm the sort of person who sees a long line for something popular, and no line for something less popular, I will step into that less-popular line. I do feel bad for Albedo, and occasionally I will draw Gaignun because he's kind of the man and Jr when I feel like failing at drawing kids.

I do actively dislike Wilhelm, though. He's got enough ties that make him like Krelian from Gears to unsettle me in the first place, and the

Spoiler:

didn't make me like him any better. But I'm petty and small and overly attached to characters that I really like. I'm not big on aloof schemers.

And the queen of terrible characters is of course, Cherenkov's Wife. I'm pretty sure I've put this rant in another thread here, but her terribleness as a human being isn't central to being female at all - she would be just as terrible if she were a dude. But yeah, she was constructed specifically to be awful and she does her job mighty fine. Just enough Miang in her to make me really hate her forever on top of being deceitful and manipulative.

by **stitchedmoon** Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:15 pm

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Post n°2

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by stitchedmoon Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:15 pm

katimus_prime wrote:Anyway, not by virtue of actively disliking them, but the URTVs seem the least interesting to me, probably because they're all young-looking and every other fan spends all of their time on about them. Then again, I'm the sort of person who sees a long line for something popular, and no line for something less popular, I will step into that less-popular line.

Word. Yeah, I don't dislike them either, but for whatever reason they just don't interest me as much as some of the other main (and minor) characters. I think I have the allergic-to-popularity gene too, and a tendency to start resenting anything that gets overexposed, because I sorta feel the same way about KOS-MOS.

But yeah, Cherenkov's wife is pure evil. (Oh god this is horrible, but whenever I go to take my ~~personality reconditioning~~ medication, I automatically think of her going "Don't forget to take your meds~!" like in that scene right before Cherenkov did the thing. Probably not a good mental association to have, but. :/ )

Last edited by stitchedmoon on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

by katimus_prime Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:13 pm

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Post n°3

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by katimus_prime Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:13 pm

As a fellow prescribant of mood-altering drugs, I don't know how I got around that same rage, because it was there for a while with me. I think because they legitimately helped me out instead of supressing who I really was.

Herp, anyway, yeah. For the longest time, I've bitten my tongue with the URTVs, but it's kind of resolved itself in this: URTV fanninating is something other people do, and that's totally fine."

by Guest Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:44 pm

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Post n°4

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by Guest Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:44 pm

I can't say there's any character that I actively hate upon? I mean, as the Resident-Crazy-Gaignun-Fan (TM), Yuriev, by definition, makes my blood boil. But, he's... interesting. Damn interesting-- a proper antagonist with really interesting motivation... which is enough to make me to draw him occasionally. While scowling. Bitterly. ~~Besides, if I was vocal enough about my distaste, I think my sister would actually have my head.~~

Kevin, of course, pisses me off. I think he pisses everyone off...? But I mean, he has good motive, and enough redemption to fashion himself as less-of-an-ass-than-he-could've been? So yeah. I don't really hate either? ~~I would just like to see Shion kick him in the crotch. Which she sort of does, metaphorically~~~ Speaking of that-- it's Kevin's obnoxious, controlling behaviour that sets up such a good story arc for Shion-- particularly in the message. I can't tell you how nice it is to see a game with a story about how the female protagonist grows to shove off her former love, recognizing his controlling and nasty behaviour, and actively deciding to fight it, instead of glorifying it as the "love-of-a-lifetime."

Still, I'd probably say he's my least favourite character overall...?

As for the URTVs-- I love them all, but as the Resident-Crazy-Gaignun-Fan, I always feel a touch saddened when Jr. and Albedo get all the attention. Like. I love them! I really do! But guys. Gaignun. Citrine too! GAIGNUN. I'd like to see them get some more love, instead of just the twins.
But I can't really complain too much about that, because, as I said, I enjoy all of them~

And we all don't like Cherenkov's wife. It is law. Nothing redeemable there!!!

by TheMagician Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:59 pm

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Post n°5

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by TheMagician Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:59 pm

QuiteBrilliantIndeed wrote:And we all don't like Cherenkov's wife. It is law. Nothing redeemable there!!!

Couldn't have said it better myself. To hell with that sorry excuse for a human being! Very Happy

Anyway, its really hard for me to find a legitimate reason to openly dislike some characters. Think about it - in the favorite characters thread, I said that very little falls under such criteria. Many of them, bar Kevin, just weren't really good at making me hate them at all. And even then, perhaps I don't HATE Kevin that much. What likely drew my ire to begin with was his overall attitude and how he manipulated Shion in general. On top of that, Shion bugged me big time whenever it came to him, until she got her mind straightened out in the end that is.

Xenosaga never gave me much to hate. I guess that's good in its own way.

by BlueMetal Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:02 am

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Post n°6

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by BlueMetal Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:02 am

Kevin. Big time. No doubt in my mind. Brilliant (Mind if I call you that? Razz

) already said most of it for me. Every time he shows up in Episode 3, I'm just like, "Ugh. Here he is, pestering Shion and making her act up on all of us. Freakin' asshole."

And not to mention how he treats poor Allen.

by **stitchedmoon** Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:18 am

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Post n°7

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by stitchedmoon Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:18 am

katimus_prime wrote:As a fellow prescribant of mood-altering drugs, I don't know how I got around that same rage, because it was there for a while with me. I think because they legitimately helped me out instead of supressing who I really was.

This. <3 I think a lot of my resistance to taking medication at first was that I thought it was gonna be like MOMO getting her personality layer shut down, but it turned out to be more like, IDK, routine maintenance or something. :B Once I got over the nervousness it really helped a lot.

QuiteBrilliantIndeed wrote: Yuriev, by definition, makes my blood boil. But, he's... interesting. Damn interesting-- a proper antagonist with really interesting motivation...

TheMagician wrote:Xenosaga never gave me much to hate. I guess that's good in its own way.

I was gonna say Yuriev and/or Kevin too, since they are kind of huge jerks. But I agree; even the villains in Xenosaga have such interesting motivations that it's kinda hard to hate them even when they do terrible awful things. Like, I know a lot of the fandom hates Voyager or points to him as the only "truly evil" character in the series (sorry, Voyager, but Cherenkov's Wife is still more eviler than you), but even though he basically exists to torment my favorite character and he's all creepy and weird and stuff, I actually still kinda like him and sympathize with his motives. (I think he seems one-dimensional in the main series due to his backstory getting outsourced to a cell phone game, but that's another can of worms for a different thread. :B )

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by Yikari Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:38 am

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Post n°8

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by Yikari Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:38 am

As you've probably deducted from my posts in the previous thread, almost any and all 'critique' I can muster at the characters is pretty much all leveled at how the game's script handles them, not at the characters themselves.

So, (I feel like I'm typing something sacrilegious here) I don't actually have that much to say against Cherenkov's wife.

Spoiler:

As for Kevin, I don't buy into him having reciprocated Shion's feelings at any point despite the database and the very last scene trying to tell me otherwise. Other than that, I consider the fact he has generated so much personal dislike from me a success. It means that despite all the things the could've done better about him, he has managed to get to me on some level.

As for URTV, I've got an impression that those little blond kids calling the 'variants' monsters when the higher-ups weren't looking was because variants had individual minds and more human-like emotions when compared to almost hive-like structure of the rest of the collective than anything that had to do with their powers (those guys and gals even had individual names, can you imagine that?!). They found the variants alien, abominable, perhaps even because they searched for - and found - some measure of enjoyment in the URTV existence. I thought it was pretty neat, however headcanon-y it might be.

The only problems with Nigredo I have are 1). his supposedly supernatural persuasive ability database tells us about is nowhere to be seen and 2). I don't understand why he felt he needed to commit suicide in order to take Dmitri out. So, once again, problems with script, not with the character themselves. Same with Citrine - too few scenes to develop sans her dialogue with Rubedo as she dies.

by Guest Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:43 am

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Post n°9

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by Guest Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:43 am

Yikari wrote: 2). I don't understand why he felt he needed to commit suicide in order to take Dmitri out.

I can provide something of an answer!!
Gaignun is hinted from Episode II onward to have quite a lot of: a) Self-loathing, due to his position as the Executioner, and b) Love for his brothers, as well as a hint of jealousy regarding the relationship the twins had. He never felt like he really belonged-- like he would never be loved by them in the same way they loved each other.

I mean. From this, and from his final words, it can be reasonably implied that he was vaguely suicidal for sometime. Who did he love more than anyone else? Rubedo. Who was he supposed to kill? Rubedo. I think the only way he could ever feel truly secure and happy was to... remove himself from the picture. He's the sort of guy who has self-sacrifice deeply rooted in his nature. He rather the twins, whom he loved so much, be happy together-- finally, truly together, in one body, and free of the threat his power posed, than to live on and constantly have to worry about causing the death of someone he loved so fiercely.

Basically, I feel as though he saw the chance, and took it. He was tired. Tired of living with that threat of the Executioner, tired of being jealous, tired of trying so hard to take care of those he loved, while knowing he could unwillingly kill them.

I simply don't think he had a high enough self-worth to feel that his continued life was more important than the twins' happiness. He rather them be happy and safe, with Albedo's wish granted and Rubedo safe from the power of the Executioner, than have all three of them be alive and not-as-happy as they could be.

He's too sweet for his own good. sEND hELP /runs off to cry

...

And BlueMetal, you're welcome to call me Brilliant1 ;D

by Yikari Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:02 pm

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Post n°10

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by Yikari Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:02 pm

QuiteBrilliantIndeed wrote:

Yikari wrote: 2). I don't understand why he felt he needed to commit suicide in order to take Dmitri out.

I can provide something of an answer!!

I suppose I can see that. It's just I felt that everyone suddenly had an urge to either kill themselves by attacking the party or sacrifice themselves for some reason or another without bothering to look for alternative solutions first. People being in enough pain that they see suicide as the only viable option is a strong moment, especially since it is the end of the world from the in-universe perspective, but for some reason I felt it was a bit contrived.

by **kare_reiko** Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:39 pm

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Post n°11

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by kare_reiko Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:39 pm

QuiteBrilliantIndeed wrote:

Yikari wrote: 2). I don't understand why he felt he needed to commit suicide in order to take Dmitri out.

I can provide something of an answer!!
Gaignun is hinted from Episode II onward to have quite a lot of: a) Self-loathing, due to his position as the Executioner, and b) Love for his brothers, as well as a hint of jealousy regarding the relationship the twins had. He never felt like he really belonged-- like he would never be loved by them in the same way they loved each other.

I mean. From this, and from his final words, it can be reasonably implied that he was vaguely suicidal for sometime. Who did he love more than anyone else? Rubedo. Who was he supposed to kill? Rubedo. I think the only way he could ever feel truly secure and happy was to... remove himself from the picture. He's the sort of guy who has self-sacrifice deeply rooted in his nature. He rather the twins, whom he loved so much, be happy together-- finally, truly together, in one body, and free of the threat his power posed, than to live on and constantly have to worry about causing the death of someone he loved so fiercely.

Basically, I feel as though he saw the chance, and took it. He was tired. Tired of living with that threat of the Executioner, tired of being jealous, tired of trying so hard to take care of those he loved, while knowing he could unwillingly kill them.

I simply don't think he had a high enough self-worth to feel that his continued life was more important than the twins' happiness. He rather them be happy and safe, with Albedo's wish granted and Rubedo safe from the power of the Executioner, than have all three of them be alive and not-as-happy as they could be.

I add to that that he really want for Rubedo and Albedo to be happy, Rubedo would be hurt again if Albedo would die then and Albedo will be happy if he again will be together with Rubedo. Gaignun could make both of them happy and save them both. In this way he could change his fate of Executioner to Saver.

by chibi Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:15 pm

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Post n°12

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by chibi Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:15 pm

Just posting to say that Kevin and Yuriev actively make my blood boil. Kevin is just an outright scumbag for all that he did to Shion, supposedly in the name of loving her (which is a bunch of total bull.) Yuriev is...I have no words for the amount of loathing I hold for him for how he treats every single damn URTV in his vicinity. And no, I'm not okay with how much Citrine fawns all over him. I honestly find it pretty pathetic on her part. At least Gaignun has the guts to attempt to fight his fate, even if he's unable to in the end.

And argh, Jr. and Albedo fan here, guys. It hurts. :cry2:

by Tehrin Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:03 am

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Post n°13

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by Tehrin Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:03 am

I'm also prone to the "if it's popular, I'm not that interested in it." bug with a lot of things I like. So I sort of feel this way when it comes to the URTVs and KOS-MOS/Telos. It's not that I don't think they are interesting characters in their own right-- they are. But I don't know, it just seems a little boring seeing it constantly after, like 10 years. :p

That said, Kevin and Yuriev (along with Cherenkov's wife) are my least favorites just because they're all-around jerks. But the things they did were just nasty, and I can't really find it in me to really like them. Next would have to be Sellers (I laughed way too hard when Mizrahi popped a cap in his knee), and then Voyager. I found no real redeeming qualities in Sellers (unlike Kevin, he does have some redeeming qualities but still a jerk.) Voyager did some nasty things but he was an interesting enough character with an interesting motive. Plus he makes for some funny situations involving Ziggy... so I can't entirely hate him.

by **stitchedmoon** Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:05 pm

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Post n°14

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by stitchedmoon Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:05 pm

^ Sellers actually kinda grew on me after a while because he's such a ridiculously unredeemably terrible person it's kind of hilarious. (Same thing with Voyager, actually.)

And derp, I totally forgot about T-elos. I wouldn't say she's my least favorite character ever, but like, LOL HEY KOS-MOS HAS A SEXY EVIL TWIN, idk.

by BlueMetal Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:24 am

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Post n°15

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by BlueMetal Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:24 am

Since you mention T-elos, I guess she does deserve at least some talking-about in this thread, haha. (Even though I don't hate her either)

Aesthetically, I love her. I don't need to go further than that. Self-explanatory. Character wise? She has had hardly any development and we barely know squat about her to really get a better understanding of why she is the way she is. All we know is that she's made out of Mary's remains by Kevin and what her purpose is. We never learn of her development process, why she has white hair instead of black, why her skin tone is lighter than Mary's (Could those be related to aging?), why she's such a b- :fraggamagga:

in stark contrast to Mary, how much of her is artificial/biological, etc. List goes on.

I'm sure many things about her could've been answered if the series was much more fleshed out like it was intended and had more development time, but still. (Or maybe some things were and I wasn't paying attention somewhere) I feel like minor bosses such as Mai had more character development than T-elos did. Just unfortunate.

On a side note, I do like Yuriev actually. To me he represents a true villian and was a very interesting one at that. Kevin is just a douche.

by Guest Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:49 pm

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Post n°16

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by Guest Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:49 pm

Yeah, I gotta agree about T-elos! She's interesting to me conceptually-- why she exists, how she exists, and how she works as a foil for KOS-MOS. As a character... eh, not so much. Which is why allllll the merchandise for her really gets my goat-- it exists solely because she's physically attractive. We could have figures of the URTVS, the E.S.s, or maybe even Shion, the MAIN CHARACTER?? But instead we get 8000000 T-elos figures and cameos, despite her really appearing in only one game, and her entire existence revolving around her significance to KOSY and Mary. Because she's sexy. :/

As for T-elos's personality being so different than Mary's-- I'm 99.9% certain it's because the personality we see her having is a highly simplistic artificial one. A "temporary" personality, there only to serve as a placeholder until she could absorb KOS-MOS, with nowhere near the complexity of organic lifeforms, or intelligent artificial life, such as Realians.

by Yikari Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:49 am

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Post n°17

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by Yikari Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:49 am

I am sorry if I am spamming the thread, just give me nudge if I am going overboard and I'll stop. I just go all *squee* when I see a possible audience for my rambling.

Spoiler:

This particular part may very well be off-topic and belong in the rant section;

I do feel there is some substance in the following bit though.

Spoiler:

by **stitchedmoon** Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:06 am

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Post n°18

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by stitchedmoon Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:06 am

Yikari wrote:I am sorry if I am spamming the thread, just give me nudge if I am going overboard and I'll stop. I just go all *squee* when I see a possible audience for my rambling.

If posting really well-thought-out, insightful contributions to the topic is spam, then I'm one of those Vikings from the Monty Python skit. :3 Seriously though, I think it's awesome that this thread has generated so much discussion (and also remained civil despite being about characters we dislike), so ramble all you want! :3

I'm also inclined to agree with you, especially re: the fanservice thing. T-elos does have a pretty cool design (and now that you mention the dark elf thing, those pointy thingies on her head kinda look like elf ears from a certain angle), and it's a shame they didn't do more with her personality. I guess that would make sense if it's just a temporary personality, as QuiteBrilliantIndeed said--maybe she was meant to be some kind of Jungian shadow archetype for KOS-MOS, so certain aspects of her personality might still be present but suppressed/unconscious after they merged? I forget if they ever mentioned that specifically in the games or database. :B Still, I do wish they'd made her a bit more interesting. She ended up seeming less like a character and more like a scantily clad plot device.

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by Yikari Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:32 am

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Post n°19

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by Yikari Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:32 am

I guess I didn't like chaos very much.

Spoiler:

Canaan's behaviour in Ep. III got a thumb-down from me too.

Spoiler:

by **stitchedmoon** Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:44 pm

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Post n°20

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by stitchedmoon Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:44 pm

Yeah, I think it could be argued that they dropped the ball on a whole lot of character development in Episode III, with the result that even the more (potentially) interesting characters came off as two-dimensional and not very sympathetic or convincing in their motives. A lot of the Pied Piper and/or ancient Lost Jerusalem backstory-related stuff just felt rushed and crammed in towards the end, and there was so much potential for interaction between characters (like Canaan and ... well, pretty much anyone else in the party) that never happened.

... and don't even get me started on the way things worked out with Voyager because I could literally write a 200-page ~~fanfic~~ essay on my disappointment

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by Nikkolas Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:04 am

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Post n°21

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by Nikkolas Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:04 am

Characters I legitimately hate are rare in Xenosaga. Oh sure, I dislike Kevin and Virgil at points but that's because I'm supposed to. So few people remember Virgil's humble beginning in Episode 1. If it was just the stuff on the Woglinde, he'd be right up there with Cherenkov's Wife.

But that is the point and so I don't really hate him.

Characters I actually hate because the writing behind them was bad.... Richard and Herman. The Database gives them both backstories and shit but none of that stuff comes up in teh game. And I will forever hate how they just came out of frickin' nowhere in Episode 2 and acted like "yeah we were always here!"

No you were not.

And Yuriev was just a fantastic villain. It's impossible for me to hate him with his perfect voice-acting and motivation and everything else.

by **stitchedmoon** Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:57 am

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Post n°22

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by stitchedmoon Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:57 am

Nikkolas wrote:So few people remember Virgil's humble beginning in Episode 1. If it was just the stuff on the Woglinde, he'd be right up there with Cherenkov's Wife.

But that is the point and so I don't really hate him.

Yeah, I found it hard to get past Virgil's d-baggery in the first game, but

Spoiler:

Characters I actually hate because the writing behind them was bad.... Richard and Herman. The Database gives them both backstories and shit but none of that stuff comes up in teh game. And I will forever hate how they just came out of frickin' nowhere in Episode 2 and acted like "yeah we were always here!"

No you were not.

I'm guessing that was another case of character development via supplemental material (in this case the DS game and I think the drama CD also?) that didn't make it into the main series. I just WTF'd when they showed up the first time and then immediately forgot about them until I found out they actually had a backstory and it was actually interesting. Poor guys didn't even get character models except in the DS version. :<

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by Yikari Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:42 am

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Post n°23

Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

Post by Yikari Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:42 am

I distinctly remember thinking "no I don't remember you, and no, there was no hide nor hair of you chuckle#$%!s in the Episode I, I've put down it like one hour ago, you won't bs me, sirs" during the first encounter with Richard and Herman. Them getting ingloriously b!tchslapped in the consequent fight didn't help in taking them seriously either.

Spoiler:

Lt. Vergil was such a blatant attempt at "I am a character you are supposed to be against" that it flew above my head and I found myself agreeing to the gist of what he was saying :eek:. I was sad the game didn't continue the theme of "maybe Shion trying to bring out individuality in her charges is cruel?" much further. Seeing as how her being such a mother-hen to the various realians and KOS-MOS is a not insignificant part of her character, I'd preffered much more screen time spent on that venture.

Him losing his temper to easily and, you know, being addicted to mind-state-altering substances could be developed as (for example) yet another little clue as to how Woglinde's strike group was actually extremely slap-dashed or something.

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