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    Who are your least favorite characters?

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    katimus_prime
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    Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by katimus_prime on Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:31 pm

    Pretty much what the title said. I could have sworn I'd made this thread before, but I guess not? I guess I didn't want to start out with a bunch of potential negativity? Either way, if folks still stay respectful, it should be fine. I hope? :curtain:

    Anyway, not by virtue of actively disliking them, but the URTVs seem the least interesting to me, probably because they're all young-looking and every other fan spends all of their time on about them. Then again, I'm the sort of person who sees a long line for something popular, and no line for something less popular, I will step into that less-popular line. I do feel bad for Albedo, and occasionally I will draw Gaignun because he's kind of the man and Jr when I feel like failing at drawing kids.

    I do actively dislike Wilhelm, though. He's got enough ties that make him like Krelian from Gears to unsettle me in the first place, and the
    Spoiler:
    Ormus thing
    didn't make me like him any better. But I'm petty and small and overly attached to characters that I really like. I'm not big on aloof schemers.

    And the queen of terrible characters is of course, Cherenkov's Wife. I'm pretty sure I've put this rant in another thread here, but her terribleness as a human being isn't central to being female at all - she would be just as terrible if she were a dude. But yeah, she was constructed specifically to be awful and she does her job mighty fine. Just enough Miang in her to make me really hate her forever on top of being deceitful and manipulative.


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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by stitchedmoon on Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:15 pm

    @katimus_prime wrote:Anyway, not by virtue of actively disliking them, but the URTVs seem the least interesting to me, probably because they're all young-looking and every other fan spends all of their time on about them.  Then again, I'm the sort of person who sees a long line for something popular, and no line for something less popular, I will step into that less-popular line.

    Word.  Yeah, I don't dislike them either, but for whatever reason they just don't interest me as much as some of the other main (and minor) characters.  I think I have the allergic-to-popularity gene too, and a tendency to start resenting anything that gets overexposed, because I sorta feel the same way about KOS-MOS.

    But yeah, Cherenkov's wife is pure evil.  (Oh god this is horrible, but whenever I go to take my personality reconditioning medication, I automatically think of her going "Don't forget to take your meds~!" like in that scene right before Cherenkov did the thing.  Probably not a good mental association to have, but. :/ )


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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by katimus_prime on Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:13 pm

    As a fellow prescribant of mood-altering drugs, I don't know how I got around that same rage, because it was there for a while with me. I think because they legitimately helped me out instead of supressing who I really was.

    Herp, anyway, yeah. For the longest time, I've bitten my tongue with the URTVs, but it's kind of resolved itself in this: URTV fanninating is something other people do, and that's totally fine."



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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by Guest on Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:44 pm

    I can't say there's any character that I actively hate upon? I mean, as the Resident-Crazy-Gaignun-Fan (TM), Yuriev, by definition, makes my blood boil. But, he's... interesting. Damn interesting-- a proper antagonist with really interesting motivation... which is enough to make me to draw him occasionally. While scowling. Bitterly. Besides, if I was vocal enough about my distaste, I think my sister would actually have my head.

    Kevin, of course, pisses me off. I think he pisses everyone off...? But I mean, he has good motive, and enough redemption to fashion himself as less-of-an-ass-than-he-could've been? So yeah. I don't really hate either? I would just like to see Shion kick him in the crotch. Which she sort of does, metaphorically~ Speaking of that-- it's Kevin's obnoxious, controlling behaviour that sets up such a good story arc for Shion-- particularly in the message. I can't tell you how nice it is to see a game with a story about how the female protagonist grows to shove off her former love, recognizing his controlling and nasty behaviour, and actively deciding to fight it, instead of glorifying it as the "love-of-a-lifetime."


    Still, I'd probably say he's my least favourite character overall...?

    As for the URTVs-- I love them all, but as the Resident-Crazy-Gaignun-Fan, I always feel a touch saddened when Jr. and Albedo get all the attention. Like. I love them! I really do! But guys. Gaignun. Citrine too! GAIGNUN. I'd like to see them get some more love, instead of just the twins.
    But I can't really complain too much about that, because, as I said, I enjoy all of them~

    And we all don't like Cherenkov's wife. It is law. Nothing redeemable there!!!
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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by TheMagician on Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:59 pm

    QuiteBrilliantIndeed wrote:And we all don't like Cherenkov's wife. It is law. Nothing redeemable there!!!
    Couldn't have said it better myself. To hell with that sorry excuse for a human being! Very Happy

    Anyway, its really hard for me to find a legitimate reason to openly dislike some characters. Think about it - in the favorite characters thread, I said that very little falls under such criteria. Many of them, bar Kevin, just weren't really good at making me hate them at all. And even then, perhaps I don't HATE Kevin that much. What likely drew my ire to begin with was his overall attitude and how he manipulated Shion in general. On top of that, Shion bugged me big time whenever it came to him, until she got her mind straightened out in the end that is.

    Xenosaga never gave me much to hate. I guess that's good in its own way.
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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by BlueMetal on Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:02 am

    Kevin. Big time. No doubt in my mind. Brilliant (Mind if I call you that? Razz) already said most of it for me. Every time he shows up in Episode 3, I'm just like, "Ugh. Here he is, pestering Shion and making her act up on all of us. Freakin' asshole."

    And not to mention how he treats poor Allen.


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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by stitchedmoon on Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:18 am

    @katimus_prime wrote:As a fellow prescribant of mood-altering drugs, I don't know how I got around that same rage, because it was there for a while with me. I think because they legitimately helped me out  instead of supressing who I really was.

    This. <3  I think a lot of my resistance to taking medication at first was that I thought it was gonna be like MOMO getting her personality layer shut down, but it turned out to be more like, IDK, routine maintenance or something. :B  Once I got over the nervousness it really helped a lot.

    QuiteBrilliantIndeed wrote: Yuriev, by definition, makes my blood boil. But, he's... interesting. Damn interesting-- a proper antagonist with really interesting motivation...

    @TheMagician wrote:Xenosaga never gave me much to hate. I guess that's good in its own way.

    I was gonna say Yuriev and/or Kevin too, since they are kind of huge jerks.  But I agree; even the villains in Xenosaga have such interesting motivations that it's kinda hard to hate them even when they do terrible awful things.  Like, I know a lot of the fandom hates Voyager or points to him as the only "truly evil" character in the series (sorry, Voyager, but Cherenkov's Wife is still more eviler than you), but even though he basically exists to torment my favorite character and he's all creepy and weird and stuff, I actually still kinda like him and sympathize with his motives.  (I think he seems one-dimensional in the main series due to his backstory getting outsourced to a cell phone game, but that's another can of worms for a different thread. :B )


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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by Yikari on Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:38 am

    As you've probably deducted from my posts in the previous thread, almost any and all 'critique' I can muster at the characters is pretty much all leveled at how the game's script handles them, not at the characters themselves.

    So, (I feel like I'm typing something sacrilegious here) I don't actually have that much to say against Cherenkov's wife.

    Spoiler:
    I dislike her being depicted as the most disgusting horrible wretch of a human being in the one scene we get to see her (not to say that she isn't, it's just that her appearance lacks context even after you've read the database article that spells out what it is you were supposed to get out of that scene; needed to be more gradual, IMHO) and I dislike her being stupid (I mean, yes she had probably no access to the actual details of Cherenkov's 'previous life', but such a blatant provocation was just asking for trouble even if her husband wasn't an augumented soldier with anger management issues. If you are gonna mercilessly exploit your invalid spouse while having a lover on the side, at least be smart about it).

    But! I think she needed to be such a horrible person. Andrei losing his shit without such a heavy trauma, such a spit in the soul (so to speak) wouldn't have made so much sense without it. We would have just assumed it was some chemical imbalance side-effect from one psycho serum or another and didn't like the backstory nearly as much.

    In my opinion, the only thing she lacks is some previous content showing her acting like a supporting wife genuinely willing to help Andrei work through his issues to pass through various surprise checks by the monitoring agency. Acting convincingly enough that Andrei starts to sincerely like her in his own way. Only to get a faceful of that when his 'caring spouse' finally secures the social privileges she sought to get out of the arrangement.

    So yeah, I despise the woman as a person, but I like her as a character.

    As for Kevin, I don't buy into him having reciprocated Shion's feelings at any point despite the database and the very last scene trying to tell me otherwise. Other than that, I consider the fact he has generated so much personal dislike from me a success. It means that despite all the things the could've done better about him, he has managed to get to me on some level.

    As for URTV, I've got an impression that those little blond kids calling the 'variants' monsters when the higher-ups weren't looking was because variants had individual minds and more human-like emotions when compared to almost hive-like structure of the rest of the collective than anything that had to do with their powers (those guys and gals even had individual names, can you imagine that?!). They found the variants alien, abominable, perhaps even because they searched for - and found - some measure of enjoyment in the URTV existence. I thought it was pretty neat, however headcanon-y it might be.

    The only problems with Nigredo I have are 1). his supposedly supernatural persuasive ability database tells us about is nowhere to be seen and 2). I don't understand why he felt he needed to commit suicide in order to take Dmitri out. So, once again, problems with script, not with the character themselves. Same with Citrine - too few scenes to develop sans her dialogue with Rubedo as she dies.

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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by Guest on Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:43 am

    @Yikari wrote: 2). I don't understand why he felt he needed to commit suicide in order to take Dmitri out.

    I can provide something of an answer!!
    Gaignun is hinted from Episode II onward to have quite a lot of: a) Self-loathing, due to his position as the Executioner, and b) Love for his brothers, as well as a hint of jealousy regarding the relationship the twins had. He never felt like he really belonged-- like he would never be loved by them in the same way they loved each other.

    I mean. From this, and from his final words, it can be reasonably implied that he was vaguely suicidal for sometime. Who did he love more than anyone else? Rubedo. Who was he supposed to kill? Rubedo. I think the only way he could ever feel truly secure and happy was to... remove himself from the picture. He's the sort of guy who has self-sacrifice deeply rooted in his nature. He rather the twins, whom he loved so much, be happy together-- finally, truly together, in one body, and free of the threat his power posed, than to live on and constantly have to worry about causing the death of someone he loved so fiercely.

    Basically, I feel as though he saw the chance, and took it. He was tired. Tired of living with that threat of the Executioner, tired of being jealous, tired of trying so hard to take care of those he loved, while knowing he could unwillingly kill them.

    I simply don't think he had a high enough self-worth to feel that his continued life was more important than the twins' happiness. He rather them be happy and safe, with Albedo's wish granted and Rubedo safe from the power of the Executioner, than have all three of them be alive and not-as-happy as they could be.

    He's too sweet for his own good. sEND hELP /runs off to cry

    ...

    And BlueMetal, you're welcome to call me Brilliant1 ;D
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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by Yikari on Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:02 pm

    QuiteBrilliantIndeed wrote:
    @Yikari wrote: 2). I don't understand why he felt he needed to commit suicide in order to take Dmitri out.

    I can provide something of an answer!!

    I suppose I can see that. It's just I felt that everyone suddenly had an urge to either kill themselves by attacking the party or sacrifice themselves for some reason or another without bothering to look for alternative solutions first. People being in enough pain that they see suicide as the only viable option is a strong moment, especially since it is the end of the world from the in-universe perspective, but for some reason I felt it was a bit contrived.
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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by kare_reiko on Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:39 pm

    QuiteBrilliantIndeed wrote:
    @Yikari wrote: 2). I don't understand why he felt he needed to commit suicide in order to take Dmitri out.

    I can provide something of an answer!!
    Gaignun is hinted from Episode II onward to have quite a lot of: a) Self-loathing, due to his position as the Executioner, and b) Love for his brothers, as well as a hint of jealousy regarding the relationship the twins had. He never felt like he really belonged-- like he would never be loved by them in the same way they loved each other.

    I mean. From this, and from his final words, it can be reasonably implied that he was vaguely suicidal for sometime. Who did he love more than anyone else? Rubedo. Who was he supposed to kill? Rubedo. I think the only way he could ever feel truly secure and happy was to... remove himself from the picture. He's the sort of guy who has self-sacrifice deeply rooted in his nature. He rather the twins, whom he loved so much, be happy together-- finally, truly together, in one body, and free of the threat his power posed, than to live on and constantly have to worry about causing the death of someone he loved so fiercely.

    Basically, I feel as though he saw the chance, and took it. He was tired. Tired of living with that threat of the Executioner, tired of being jealous, tired of trying so hard to take care of those he loved, while knowing he could unwillingly kill them.

    I simply don't think he had a high enough self-worth to feel that his continued life was more important than the twins' happiness. He rather them be happy and safe, with Albedo's wish granted and Rubedo safe from the power of the Executioner, than have all three of them be alive and not-as-happy as they could be.

    I add to that that he really want for Rubedo and Albedo to be happy, Rubedo would be hurt again if Albedo would die then and Albedo will be happy if he again will be together with Rubedo. Gaignun could make both of them happy and save them both. In this way he could change his fate of Executioner to Saver.


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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by chibi on Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:15 pm

    Just posting to say that Kevin and Yuriev actively make my blood boil. Kevin is just an outright scumbag for all that he did to Shion, supposedly in the name of loving her (which is a bunch of total bull.) Yuriev is...I have no words for the amount of loathing I hold for him for how he treats every single damn URTV in his vicinity. And no, I'm not okay with how much Citrine fawns all over him. I honestly find it pretty pathetic on her part. At least Gaignun has the guts to attempt to fight his fate, even if he's unable to in the end.

    And argh, Jr. and Albedo fan here, guys. It hurts. :cry2:


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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by Tehrin on Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:03 am

    I'm also prone to the "if it's popular, I'm not that interested in it." bug with a lot of things I like. So I sort of feel this way when it comes to the URTVs and KOS-MOS/Telos. It's not that I don't think they are interesting characters in their own right-- they are. But I don't know, it just seems a little boring seeing it constantly after, like 10 years. :p

    That said, Kevin and Yuriev (along with Cherenkov's wife) are my least favorites just because they're all-around jerks. But the things they did were just nasty, and I can't really find it in me to really like them. Next would have to be Sellers (I laughed way too hard when Mizrahi popped a cap in his knee), and then Voyager. I found no real redeeming qualities in Sellers (unlike Kevin, he does have some redeeming qualities but still a jerk.) Voyager did some nasty things but he was an interesting enough character with an interesting motive. Plus he makes for some funny situations involving Ziggy... so I can't entirely hate him.
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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by stitchedmoon on Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:05 pm

    ^ Sellers actually kinda grew on me after a while because he's such a ridiculously unredeemably terrible person it's kind of hilarious. (Same thing with Voyager, actually.)

    And derp, I totally forgot about T-elos. I wouldn't say she's my least favorite character ever, but like, LOL HEY KOS-MOS HAS A SEXY EVIL TWIN, idk.


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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by BlueMetal on Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:24 am

    Since you mention T-elos, I guess she does deserve at least some talking-about in this thread, haha. (Even though I don't hate her either)

    Aesthetically, I love her. I don't need to go further than that. Self-explanatory. Character wise? She has had hardly any development and we barely know squat about her to really get a better understanding of why she is the way she is. All we know is that she's made out of Mary's remains by Kevin and what her purpose is. We never learn of her development process, why she has white hair instead of black, why her skin tone is lighter than Mary's (Could those be related to aging?), why she's such a b- :fraggamagga: in stark contrast to Mary, how much of her is artificial/biological, etc. List goes on.

    I'm sure many things about her could've been answered if the series was much more fleshed out like it was intended and had more development time, but still. (Or maybe some things were and I wasn't paying attention somewhere) I feel like minor bosses such as Mai had more character development than T-elos did. Just unfortunate. :blank2:


    On a side note, I do like Yuriev actually. To me he represents a true villian and was a very interesting one at that. Kevin is just a douche.


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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by Guest on Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:49 pm

    Yeah, I gotta agree about T-elos! She's interesting to me conceptually-- why she exists, how she exists, and how she works as a foil for KOS-MOS. As a character... eh, not so much. Which is why allllll the merchandise for her really gets my goat-- it exists solely because she's physically attractive. We could have figures of the URTVS, the E.S.s, or maybe even Shion, the MAIN CHARACTER?? But instead we get 8000000 T-elos figures and cameos, despite her really appearing in only one game, and her entire existence revolving around her significance to KOSY and Mary. Because she's sexy. :/

    As for T-elos's personality being so different than Mary's-- I'm 99.9% certain it's because the personality we see her having is a highly simplistic artificial one. A "temporary" personality, there only to serve as a placeholder until she could absorb KOS-MOS, with nowhere near the complexity of organic lifeforms, or intelligent artificial life, such as Realians.
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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by Yikari on Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:49 am

    I am sorry if I am spamming the thread, just give me nudge if I am going overboard and I'll stop. I just go all *squee* when I see a possible audience for my rambling.

    Spoiler:
    While T-elos presents a very fertile base for all kinds of character exploration and all that jazz (which is surprisingly lacking from what I can see; I understand that simply scouring fanfiction.net does not cover all there is to have Xenosaga, but given that one can find works with serious character analysis for Naruto fandom in there, it is more than a little ridiculous), even Citrine has more meaningful presence in the story than she does - and that's saying something.

    What little she has to say in the Ep. III proper usually causes me to come down in a fit of giggles. I don't know if it has something to do with the amount of jokes, anecdotes and comedy routines featuring a 'Maria' character of some kind we have around here or is it just me, but I was left laughing in the middle of a supposedly life-or-death struggle several times. I am interested in seeing what that SRW spin-off does to her in terms of characterization, but given that is a SRW game, I am not sure it would be very (or at all) serious either.

    I like her color scheme. I am at odds with almost any kind of purple for who-knows-what reason, but that particular combination of those specific shades of black fabric - dark skin - white hair - purple armor got me good. Despite me realising that this puts T-elos one pair of dorky ears away from 'anime dark elf' visual archetype. Also, the 'third-eye' lightning-spewing thingy on the forhead, the boss revolver and her own recolours of the Blaster and the triple gatling cannon all get a thumbs-up from me.

    However, given what I have seen of the internet, I am kinda afraid of what an image search would bring up. It is one of those moments I utterly hate my absolute inability to draw. Do we have someone here who could give the poor thing a couple of pants?

    I found it suspicious that chaos, Shion and T-elos for some reason have (what looks to me) absolutely the same eyes in Ep. III for no explained reason whatsoever, but this is definitely the least of my worries.

    Both T-elos and KOS-MOS share their VA (at least in the english version), but given the amount of other characters that do so I'm not entirely sure that wasn't done simply out of necessity.

    Overall impression: too much plot threads teasing, too little actual substance. In my opinion, even Cherenkov's wife left more impact in the plot than T-elos did.


    This particular part may very well be off-topic and belong in the rant section;

    I do feel there is some substance in the following bit though.

    Spoiler:
    While I have come to loathe the 'girls in scaly swimsuits' kind of fanservice something fierce, I happen to enjoy the 'Ziggy wipes off some blood from his busted lip and double-counterattacks his foe into oblivion with a mighty heave' kind of scenes very much. Which themselves are a kind of fanservice too. So, even as I think of all the ways the mandatory face off against the Evil Twin could've been done better, I feel a bit hypocritical myself.

    Maybe it has something to do with people trying to stuff half-naked character designs into a game engine that isn't made for such stuff? Am I the only one who thinks that characters turn out much more sexy in general when the camera doesn't insist on poking your nose into wooden-looking body models covered in murky textures? Ah, who am I kidding, a ridiculous wardrobe is a ridiculous wardrobe no matter how you do it.

    Maybe that's just me, but, IMHO, when that nameless female realian soldier model leaves a better impression than the character you put on every cover of your franchise with a purpose of making her its sex-symbol, you are doing something wrong.
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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by stitchedmoon on Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:06 am

    @Yikari wrote:I am sorry if I am spamming the thread, just give me nudge if I am going overboard and I'll stop. I just go all *squee* when I see a possible audience for my rambling.

    If posting really well-thought-out, insightful contributions to the topic is spam, then I'm one of those Vikings from the Monty Python skit. :3  Seriously though, I think it's awesome that this thread has generated so much discussion (and also remained civil despite being about characters we dislike), so ramble all you want! :3

    I'm also inclined to agree with you, especially re: the fanservice thing.  T-elos does have a pretty cool design (and now that you mention the dark elf thing, those pointy thingies on her head kinda look like elf ears from a certain angle), and it's a shame they didn't do more with her personality.  I guess that would make sense if it's just a temporary personality, as QuiteBrilliantIndeed said--maybe she was meant to be some kind of Jungian shadow archetype for KOS-MOS, so certain aspects of her personality might still be present but suppressed/unconscious after they merged?  I forget if they ever mentioned that specifically in the games or database. :B  Still, I do wish they'd made her a bit more interesting.  She ended up seeming less like a character and more like a scantily clad plot device.


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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by Yikari on Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:32 am

    I guess I didn't like chaos very much.

    Spoiler:
    And not simply because I don't like it when the people responsible for the character design try to sell me the idea of someone going anywhere in such 'jackets' and 'shorts' because future fashion and the basic needs of "keep the small of your back warm" and "don't wear something that will ride up your buttcrack" had somehow disappeared.

    For me he came off as A). having way too little scenes for a character that turns out to be such an important part of the plot and B). in the scenes he did do something, 'wait and see' seemed to be the name of the game.

    My biggest bone with him is that scene at the end of the Old Miltia mindscrew in EP. III. He seems to at least have an inkling of what is happenning and even has a comment that gives a hint about it to both the rest of the party and the player. And right after that he does absolutely nothing (you can even interpret it as him stalling the party when they do try to butt in on Kevin's show) as Shion gets talked into a freak out that (if the database is to be believed) results in the crisis finally reaching critical mass and ultimately snowballing into the chain of events that forced the party to do away with the only known way of preventing the end of the world as they know it.

    In my opinion, if the game absolutely had to have an intra-party conflict strong enough to result in a serious fight, some characters (especially Jin, I think) confronting chaos on what exactly did he think he was doing would've been a much more believable alternative to what actually happens at the end of the game.

    (While I do think that Shion getting confused into a crying screaming ball of misery devoid of any rational thought was done much better than is usual for the genre, I hadn't actually believed at any point that her joining Kevin was going to be anything more than a one-scene wonder. Which kinda defeats the purpose of the whole gig.)


    Canaan's behaviour in Ep. III got a thumb-down from me too.

    Spoiler:
    Both his word choice and his VA perfomance were, in my opinion, out of whack when compared to how he was portrayed in Ep. II. Yes, there are a number of factors stemming from the Pied Piper storyline that might explain why the dude may have come to cunclusion he had to atone by offing himself during the timeskip, but I still maintain that this was a waste of a perfectly good character. *puffs himself up in resentment*

    I'd say that the biggest issue I see with that is how no one tries to talk him out of his "I was manufactured to do this, there is nothing more to my life than that" stance at anytime during the game.

    I mean, we have characters like MOMO and Jr. in the party, I bet they'd have something to say to him if they heard that talk regardless of whether Canaan wanted to hear it or not.

    There's Shion, who helps out with her ship's realian maintenance service during her (already few) off-hours regardless of her not getting any pay or not having the qualification for psychotherapy work because someone has to, damn it!

    There's Jin, who is a veteran of intelligence work in the field that certainly requires the ability of how to read people and who knows how many other walks of life, what's with his tendency switch them twice a year.

    There's Ziggy, who, despite his aloof tendencies, can still share the hot-blooded wisdom of mecha pilots everywhere with the best of them when the mood strikes him.

    There's chaos, who really shoud've nipped that in the bud, seeing as how he had the most interaction with Canaan out of them all and is an immortal who knows how much experience to boot.

    Finally, there's the ever-vigilant KOS-MOS who always could've caught the dude by his collar with a not quite sarcastic quip of "contrary to the popular opinion, suicidal behaviour does not in fact improve probability of mission success" or something.

    But no, Canaan had to go and sacrifice himself.

    Perhaps my beef is that the game didn't properly show that the party didn't have a chance in hell beating Voyager otherwise. His awesome broken powers manifested themselves only in cutscenes and the actual boss fights with him were just tedious hp-sponge slugfests with no need to find a workaround for his tricks or even simply procuring a McGuffin to disable them. You know, like that stretch of 'do not let the Gnosis touch you' game at the start of Ep. I.
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    stitchedmoon

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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by stitchedmoon on Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:44 pm

    Yeah, I think it could be argued that they dropped the ball on a whole lot of character development in Episode III, with the result that even the more (potentially) interesting characters came off as two-dimensional and not very sympathetic or convincing in their motives.  A lot of the Pied Piper and/or ancient Lost Jerusalem backstory-related stuff just felt rushed and crammed in towards the end, and there was so much potential for interaction between characters (like Canaan and ... well, pretty much anyone else in the party) that never happened.

    ... and don't even get me started on the way things worked out with Voyager because I could literally write a 200-page fanfic essay on my disappointment


    Last edited by stitchedmoon on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Nikkolas

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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by Nikkolas on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:04 am

    Characters I legitimately hate are rare in Xenosaga. Oh sure, I dislike Kevin and Virgil at points but that's because I'm supposed to. So few people remember Virgil's humble beginning in Episode 1. If it was just the stuff on the Woglinde, he'd be right up there with Cherenkov's Wife.

    But that is the point and so I don't really hate him.

    Characters I actually hate because the writing behind them was bad.... Richard and Herman. The Database gives them both backstories and shit but none of that stuff comes up in teh game. And I will forever hate how they just came out of frickin' nowhere in Episode 2 and acted like "yeah we were always here!"

    No you were not.

    And Yuriev was just a fantastic villain. It's impossible for me to hate him with his perfect voice-acting and motivation and everything else.
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    stitchedmoon

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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by stitchedmoon on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:57 am

    @Nikkolas wrote:So few people remember Virgil's humble beginning in Episode 1. If it was just the stuff on the Woglinde, he'd be right up there with Cherenkov's Wife.

    But that is the point and so I don't really hate him.

    Yeah, I found it hard to get past Virgil's d-baggery in the first game, but
    Spoiler:
    he redeemed himself beautifully in Episode 3, and I cried actual tears when Febronia happened.

    Characters I actually hate because the writing behind them was bad.... Richard and Herman. The Database gives them both backstories and shit but none of that stuff comes up in teh game. And I will forever hate how they just came out of frickin' nowhere in Episode 2 and acted like "yeah we were always here!"

    No you were not.

    I'm guessing that was another case of character development via supplemental material (in this case the DS game and I think the drama CD also?) that didn't make it into the main series.  I just WTF'd when they showed up the first time and then immediately forgot about them until I found out they actually had a backstory and it was actually interesting.  Poor guys didn't even get character models except in the DS version. :<


    Last edited by stitchedmoon on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Yikari

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    Re: Who are your least favorite characters?

    Post by Yikari on Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:42 am

    I distinctly remember thinking "no I don't remember you, and no, there was no hide nor hair of you chuckle#$%!s in the Episode I, I've put down it like one hour ago, you won't bs me, sirs" during the first encounter with Richard and Herman. Them getting ingloriously b!tchslapped in the consequent fight didn't help in taking them seriously either.

    Spoiler:
    The actual beef I have with Richard is how his character archetype pops up in various mecha anime and other stories modeled after such in a (in my opinion) blatantly stupid manner.

    I understand that Ormus is supposed to be something like a bunch of religious fanatics that value loyalty to their cause more than anything else, but I have trouble imagining how such a blatantly mentally unbalanced dude could be let anywhere near your nifty super fighting robot machine prototype. Given that their military branch is headed by such utterly pragmatic people like Margulis, it is even more eyebrow-raising than the usual psycho pilots' cases.

    (I know that following Ep I Margulis is shown acutally believing in their stated goals, but in the flashback when he is shown recruiting Andrei, he comes off as a very calculating individual experienced in bs-ing impressionable minds into doing suicide missions. I suppose both could be true at the same time though.)



    It could be that Richard may only happen to display such behaviour when something specific your party characters do triggers it and otherwise has passed the required training to, you know, follow orders and don't shoot up firendly space stations for no reason. But it is never explained, shown or explored in the games' proper. I guess I'll have a look-see at that additional material, but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

    I've liked (what little there is of) Herman though.

    Lt. Vergil was such a blatant attempt at "I am a character you are supposed to be against" that it flew above my head and I found myself agreeing to the gist of what he was saying  :eek:. I was sad the game didn't continue the theme of "maybe Shion trying to bring out individuality in her charges is cruel?" much further. Seeing as how her being such a mother-hen to the various realians and KOS-MOS is a not insignificant part of her character, I'd preffered much more screen time spent on that venture.

    Him losing his temper to easily and, you know, being addicted to mind-state-altering substances could be developed as (for example) yet another little clue as to how Woglinde's strike group was actually extremely slap-dashed or something.

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