Xenosaga Retrospective

Hey, everybody.

So, my retrospective continues. I've posted a new column up on Xenotensei called "The Mech Factor", part 5 of my defense of Episode 2, which begins to serve as a transition to "Contesting the Master Plan".

Actually, this is only the first half of the full column, which expanded considerably as I wrote it.

The second half will be done within a week or so.

Check it out here and let me know what you think:
http://forums.xenotensei.com/index.php?topic=452.msg6928#msg6928

I did not know that was why the ES were introduced.  

I liked the AGWS even though they were not "special" to the story, because I thought it introduced an interesting aspect of character customization to the gameplay, without bogging down the story.  I was disappointed however that the AGWS were rarely necessary (if ever).  I often forgot I even had them for most of the game's battles.   For me it was not a story issue, but a gameplay issue.

Throughout XS2 and XS3 I thought the elements of the plot were getting stretched very thin, with so many new plot devices being introduced.   I noticed (and lamented) that as the ES units and their respective Anima vessels became more important, other established parts of the game like the Zohar Emulators faded into the background and became almost meaningless to the story.  

In a proper narrative of Takahashi's style, you would set up these type of elements as fore-shadowing in a mysterious way, and then they will come into play later down the road to give you a great sense of resolution.  I always felt there were a lot of aspects of Xenosaga that never came back around, or were introduced without much set-up.  

Spoiler:

Or maybe it's that these anima vessels existed in the original story, just not as the core for ES units.

For me it was not a story issue, but a gameplay issue.

Story and gameplay are closely intertwined in Xenosaga, so I'd say it's a bit of both. Without the story requiring one to play as the AGWS, there is no reason to use them in the gameplay. I'm pretty sure a lot of people forgot about them

Throughout XS2 and XS3 I thought the elements of the plot were getting stretched very thin, with so many new plot devices being introduced. I noticed (and lamented) that as the ES units and their respective Anima vessels became more important, other established parts of the game like the Zohar Emulators faded into the background and became almost meaningless to the story.

This is exactly one of my arguments in the second half of the game - that the reason the ZEs became sidelined was because of the VoA and ES. I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one thinking about this.

I will be tackling the whole Anima-related issues more in-depth in the second half.

And so, the Mech Factor has come to an end. Check it out, for the pics at least, let me know what you think:

http://forums.xenotensei.com/index.php?topic=452.msg6985#msg6985

http://forums.xenotensei.com/index.php?topic=452.msg6986#msg6986

Now, I can finally focus on U-DO, the grand daddy of them all.

This really explains a lot for me. It's all speculation I know, but it just seems to explain everything that went south in XS2 and XS3.

I am a writer myself. I don't claim to be a good writer or anything, but I know the basics of how plots fit together. Xenosaga 2 and 3 seemed like they introduced a lot of seemingly random elements that mimic or repeat the ideas that are already there, and then wrote their way around the additions, while being vague enough about it to avoid obvious contradictions. This is bad writing, just in general. Editing should almost always be about taking away and combining elements, not adding more.

There's also a major problem with proportion throughout the series.

In ep.1, the Zohar and its emulators are depicted with such power and ominousness, and you already know at this point from the story (and if you played Xenogears) that the Zohar is the icon of a higher dimension being, what we would perceive as a God. By the end of XS3, the Zohar is treated merely as the focus of a sub-lot, only one of many items needed to attain Wilhelm's goal. This created a huge sense of letdown for me.

Jr.'s story arc is treated almost as equal importance as Shion's throughout 1 and 2. But, without that involvement of U-DO in the later game, Jr.'s relevance is reduced to a sub-plot that really doesn't add much to the plot except more play time events to go through. I enjoyed Jr.'s story (possibly more than Shion's) but again, I felt a big let-down that it had nothing to do with what turned out to be the primary conflict, Wilhelm's ambition of Eternal Recurrence.

I also suspect some relevance with MOMO and even Ziggy being lost in the process, since both the realians and Voyager sub-plots are connected to U-DO. In fact, I think every single player character has some connection to U-DO.

What I don't understand about the theory is why adding special robots had to so drastically change the plot. They could have easily included the ES units, but said that they draw power from U-DO remotely, just as KOS-MOS does. It would also explain why Dinah can do the UMN-circumvention if it was accessing U-DO directly somehow.

If chaos was originally supposed to be U-DO's human form, then Abel may never have been added. Maybe they edited this part of chaos's history to allow for Abel to be added to the game, and pander even more to Xennogears fans.

Or maybe Takahashi just lost his shit because he had a metaphoric gun to his head while working on the series.

This really explains a lot for me.  It's all speculation I know, but it just seems to explain everything that went south in XS2 and XS3.  

Feels nice to hear that.

I am a writer myself.  I don't claim to be a good writer or anything, but I know the basics of how plots fit together.  Xenosaga 2 and 3 seemed like they introduced a lot of seemingly random elements that mimic or repeat the ideas that are already there, and then wrote their way around the additions, while being vague enough about it to avoid obvious contradictions.  This is bad writing, just in general.  Editing should almost always be about taking away and combining elements, not adding more.  

I'm trying to be a writer myself, so I feel your pain. Do you write any fanfiction?

I think they actually did take away and combine a lot of elements, but they had to add a lot of stuff as well, causing other stuff to shift course. Really, I ponder what the heck the point was with all the Lemegeton stuff when the VoA were there already.

I also suspect some relevance with MOMO and even Ziggy being lost in the process, since both the realians and Voyager sub-plots are connected to U-DO.   In fact, I think every single player character has some connection to U-DO.  

If chaos was originally supposed to be U-DO's human form, then Abel may never have been added.  Maybe they edited this part of chaos's history to allow for Abel to be added to the game, and pander even more to Xennogears fans.

[/quote]

U-DO is such a huge subject that pondering its connections to people becomes a jigsaw puzzle, where you can re-arrange the pieces time and again, and it still won't fit together.

My take on U-DO is that it was originally an AI that evolved into a Wave entity via exposure to the Zohar. But that concept changed over time, and so U-DO became merged with the HD that is beyond the Zohar, becoming an HD Wave Entity/GOD instead, leading to a lot of retcons and inconsistencies in Episodes 2 and 3. This is what I will argue in my U-DO article.

I don't take up the position that Chaos was U-DO's human form though that remains a possibility, given some of the info in the Leaked Notes: http://xenoverse.xenotensei.com/xenosaga/leakeddocuments.png
(But note that here, U-DO is much different than E3 U-DO.)

Plus, Abel has a split second cameo in Episode 1's finale, so he was always going to be a piece of the puzzle.

Finally, my current take on things is that the names of the Testa-Mechs were meant to be homages to the Gears' Anima Relic names. But once the idea came to scrap the AGWS and start over, they decided to use that naming convention to create more Special Mechs.

I'm trying to be a writer myself, so I feel your pain. Do you write any fanfiction?

I wrote fanfiction for Xenosaga several years ago, before I began my self-taught experiences in writing. So, it was terrible and I am loathe to look back at it. Another problem was, I'm not good at keeping all the technical stuff in Xenosaga straight (seems like even its creators have that problem). So there were some huge problems in my fanfiction about how things worked.

Anyway, this all just makes me wonder what the original idea was, and how it may have been better than what we got. I think this is why Xenoblade was more successful, despite having less Takahashi-brand depth. It was a more simplistic story with very few elements. I hope than their next game, Monolith will that this approach and add slightly darker and more adult themes to it.

Speaking of Lamegeton... how exactly did Nephilim figure into this? Her role must have also changed as a result.

I wrote fanfiction for Xenosaga several years ago, before I began my self-taught experiences in writing. So, it was terrible and I am loathe to look back at it. Another problem was, I'm not good at keeping all the technical stuff in Xenosaga straight (seems like even its creators have that problem). So there were some huge problems in my fanfiction about how things worked.

That's cool. A lot to fan works aren't necessarily good, at least at the outset. And yeah, I've noticed so many discrepancies between all the different technical stuff, I'm sure they had migraines keeping it straight.

Anyway, this all just makes me wonder what the original idea was, and how it may have been better than what we got. I think this is why Xenoblade was more successful, despite having less Takahashi-brand depth. It was a more simplistic story with very few elements. I hope than their next game, Monolith will that this approach and add slightly darker and more adult themes to it.

I definitely think Xenosaga bit off more than it could chew. There were enough concepts for two or three distinct games crammed into Episode 1 and the results were problematic to say the least.

Speaking of Lamegeton... how exactly did Nephilim figure into this? Her role must have also changed as a result.

I don't really know. Lemegeton seems connected to the Zohar and yet not to Anima directly, although it is also meant to somehow control the HD energy. I certainly think it's possible the whole Grimoire Verum story might've been invented, but that's not a fact.

What I do know is that Nephilim's relationship to U-DO definitely changed. You look back at Episode 1 and Nephilim describes U-DO as a soul-eating malevolent entity that threatens all of existence. Then, later on, it turns out that U-DO is actually a semi-benevolent God and Nephilim knew this all along as she had met U-DO long, long ago. So, the way she described U-DO initially then makes no sense and means that she was lying for no reason.

I've been reading through your retrospective, and I got to the part where you asked for response.  I decided to post here instead of at one of those forums because I am not interested in getting into the discussion.  This is also pretty tl;dr so yeah.

I'm still not finished, but so far it is pretty interesting.  I'm a student of fiction myself, and deconstructing series is one of my little hobbies.  I am just going to state though, I am totally inexperienced with writing and I have never studied it academically.  

I think that overall your series may nit-pick a bit, but it's similar to watching Red Letter Media's Plinkett Reviews.  They have a secondary function which is not simply to evaluate the series.  Plinkett's provide hilarious entertainment, and yours help us learn a little something about how works of fiction are created.

Here's a few points I've been taking notes on as I read.

In the Woglinde sequence, you complained that Shion had no motivation to check on KOS-MOS after she began to activate.  I always interpreted her concern as being simply because KOS-MOS is so important to her, like a child.  She does illogical things because of her strong emotions for KOS-MOS.  She doesn't have a plan as to what to do with KOS-MOS when she gets there, and in fact, KOS-MOS doesn't need her help by any stretch of the imagination.  But it's sort of like on a plane, when the flight attendant tells you to equip your own mask before assisting your child.  Almost every mother will completely ignore that advice and tend to her child first, despite the obvious lapse in logic that if she helps herself, she'll be more likely to save her child.  So, even though it's in the child's own interest she helps herself, she still can't do it because her instinct is always to help that child first.  

As for when and why KOS-MOS uses certain abilities when she may have used them earlier or more often, I have to admit that these are poorly constructed sequences of events meant to provide KOS-MOS's epic entrances.  However, I think that some things may be explained by the fact she was unfinished, and had not been field-tested.  There is also the fact that later on she has to recharge for a considerable amount of time.  That, and the Hilbert Effect has negative effects on some sensors.  When she tried to use it in the Encephalon it was all screwy.  

It is possible, although very weak, that the reason KOS-MOS doesn't whip out the hilbert effect until after attempting to save Shion is that she is not programmed to do so.  Shion sems very surprised that she used it.  Then, in every other incident I remember, Shion gives her the command to use it.  She does not do it on her own volition.

This is suspension of disbelief for me.  I never even thought about it until much, much, later.  And even then, it didn't seem impossible that a reason for this could exist.  It was just needlessly complicated so KOS-MOS could make a cool entrance.  

This is a shade different from something like firing bullets at Gnosis even though you never hit them, which is just dumb.  Especially in the scene where they thing that Shion is a Gnosis.  I thought that for sure, the two signals here (Shion being mistaken for a Gnosis on sensor, and Shion avoiding all the bullets) were leading up to some reveal that she has a Gnosis-like existence and powers.  But, alas.  If that was ever the plan, it was lost along the way.
 
I found the argument in the topic about Takahashi's heavy use of enneagram types in his writing very interesting.  I agree with only part of both sides of that argument.  I think Takahashi's idea to create characters to express these types is interesting, and suits the heavy psychological influences and feel of the story.  The problem for me is that nature is only one part of the spectrum, and nurture is another.  Two people having the same E-type will act differently depending on their life and circumstances. However, it does not define her as a person. She surely has other behaviors that she has developed from life experience.  Shion being dreamy and aloof all the time to the point of neglecting to ask relative questions or noticing obvious cues is simply not believable.

Shion does not start to act true to both her personal history and her Type until deep into XS2 and XS3, which ironically happens the less and less Takehashi is directly involved.  This created sort of a cut-off where I felt her character changed for no reason.  At first she was a cute ditzy scientist who, aside from a short temper, is sympathetic and deeply caring to everyone she meets.  She suddenly became this restless soul with no patience for anyone.  When I read about the writer changes and Takehashi's  enneagram inspiration, it makes sense to me.  The new writers must have been trying to make her more authentically Shion-like than Takehashi had even managed to do in XS1.  

As for Shion being a passive character in XS1, I totally agree.   Where I differ is that I don't believe Shion needed to be an active character in order for the story to have succeeded, but that she is a poor passive character.  I think better character-driven writing on the whole would have sufficed.  A character-driven story can work, but it still needs to be, you know, driven by something.  

That brings me to the things that do cause irreparable harm to the franchise for me.

Character's motivation.  Even in a story arc that lacks a central conflict, characters should be taking actions based on their individual motivation. There are still cause/effect relationships between points in a character-driven story.

Conflict-driven:  You are thirsty, so you try to get something to drink, but something makes it hard for you to get it.

Character-driven:  You are thirsty, so you get something to drink.  

Xenosaga would be like, a drink randomly appears in the midst of a cosmic phenomenon you don't understand, and you never really find out why.  But hell, may as well drink it.

The problem is that Shion is so flighty, so out of touch with reality, that absolutely no event seems to register on her radar.  Any chance for motivation to tie into the story is lost on her. I generally liked her, but I felt very ambivalent to her part of the story.  I looked at her as KOS-MOS's sidekick.  That is a concept that also could have worked, if she were not the series main character.  

It also makes Allen completely redundant.  Allen as a character plays the later role of helping Shion overcome the very important Kevin-related character arc of her story, but throughout XS1 he is just a second Shion who is doubly as impotent and whiney.  Shion follows KOS-MOS around, Allen follows Shion around.  

The reason why a character-driven narrative may have worked for XS1 (up until the meeting with Feb in the Encephalon dive) is that it creates a unique atmosphere.  It's the mysterious and uncontrollable nature of KOS-MOS, the Zohar, and the very fact that the events are beyond Shion's control that made the game so interesting to me.  If Shion were in control of KOS-MOS, then this appeal would be dampened, if not entirely lost.  It could be compensated in other areas perhaps, but I don't think it is broken.

Where it went wrong to me is in failing to explain why everything beyond her control is actually happening, and why or if she cares.  I am the first proponent of leaving a story vague and letting people draw their own conclusions, but there is a finesse to it.  There's no hard always or never rule when it comes to a good story, it just has to work.  Xenosaga did not make it work, but it could have.

I think I differ slightly on is your suggestion of streamlining the story to omit several arcs, and this is also related to my support of a character-driven narrative.  

My complaint with the narrative in Xenosaga I is not that so many of the events fail to move the plot forward, but that they have absolutely no effect on  the characters who experience those events.  The Cathedral Ship sequence, while completely unrelated to the "getting to Miltia" platform of the entire game's plot, or the “protect the Y-data” parts that interrupted it later, could have added invaluable depth to Shion's character, as well as the other characters whose fates are directly linked to the Gnosis phenomenon and its causes.  

In any of my favorite RPGs, like Final Fantasy 6, Valkyrie Profile, or Chrono Trigger, the over-arching plot sometimes takes a backseat to side stories that may not directly advance the plot, but give you a deeper and more complete appreciation of the world and everything in it.  The most obvious example being in FF6, where it's possible to defeat Kefka without even recruiting most of your cast again for the second half of the game, but the enjoyment would be lessened significantly.  You wouldn't get to find out what happened to Terra or Locke or any of the characters you have become invested in.  Learning more about them is your reward for playing the game thoroughly.  

Valkyrie Profile is nothing but a collection thematically-related short stories.  While there is a central plot, it is only discovered through extensive research and most likely by multiple play-throughs.  But it works as a game, because it makes you as the player feel you've accomplished something by seeking out all these "secret" events.  The characters that you recruit have nothing to do with the major story, but they each form a comparison or contrast to Lenneth, the protagonist, and her ongoing conflict on the back burner.

The ability to parallel or contrast something without the story becoming redundant is tricky.  The main character will learn something by watching another character learn something.  You'll later come back to their story arc, no matter how unrelated, by exercising some video game-specific mechanic, like visiting their home town later in the game, or seeking out an optional boss related to them.  It gives you a sense of reward for your task, as well as fleshing out the game.
 
This is why I think Xenogears on the whole (while not being without flaws) was vastly more successful than Xenosaga.  Xenoblade, while I would have appreciated a more mature and ambitious storyline of course, also works excellently as a video game.  I have not played Soma Bringer or any other MS games, but it seems they did get better about this particular point with time (at the expense of some cool stuff, maybe).  

I believe that Xenosaga got caught in this identity struggle, where it wants to retain all the world-building and character-exploring extras that make an older style of JPRG fun, but tries to present it in a new age cinematic experience.  It doesn't parse.  And that we seem to agree on, but what I think is that it should have been more like a game by keeping all that stuff and just doing it better, where as you seem to project it would have been more successful if it were more like a movie, and removed all that stuff.

Of I could be wrong, I don't want to speak for you.  That's just how I interpret your breakdown.

So this post is way too long already.  I will come back after I've read more.

I'm still not finished, but so far it is pretty interesting.  I'm a student of fiction myself, and deconstructing series is one of my little hobbies.

That's absolutely true for me.

I think that overall your series may nit-pick a bit, but it's similar to watching Red Letter Media's Plinkett Reviews.  They have a secondary function which is not simply to evaluate the series.  Plinkett's provide hilarious entertainment, and yours help us learn a little something about how works of fiction are created.

That was the intention, at least initially. I was heavily inspired by RLM.

In the Woglinde sequence, you complained that Shion had no motivation to check on KOS-MOS after she began to activate.  I always interpreted her concern as being simply because KOS-MOS is so important to her, like a child.  She does illogical things because of her strong emotions for KOS-MOS.  She doesn't have a plan as to what to do with KOS-MOS when she gets there, and in fact, KOS-MOS doesn't need her help by any stretch of the imagination.  But it's sort of like on a plane, when the flight attendant tells you to equip your own mask before assisting your child.  Almost every mother will completely ignore that advice and tend to her child first, despite the obvious lapse in logic that if she helps herself, she'll be more likely to save her child.  So, even though it's in the child's own interest she helps herself, she still can't do it because her instinct is always to help that child first.  

I guess I could see it that way.

This is suspension of disbelief for me.  I never even thought about it until much, much, later.  And even then, it didn't seem impossible that a reason for this could exist.  It was just needlessly complicated so KOS-MOS could make a cool entrance.  

Yeah, I admit this is more forgivable than the Federation firing at transparent enemies for no reason.

I thought that for sure, the two signals here (Shion being mistaken for a Gnosis on sensor, and Shion avoiding all the bullets) were leading up to some reveal that she has a Gnosis-like existence and powers.  But, alas.  If that was ever the plan, it was lost along the way.
 

I never thought of that. Interesting interpretation.

Shion being dreamy and aloof all the time to the point of neglecting to ask relative questions or noticing obvious cues is simply not believable.

I'm definitely with you on that. I mean, I don't have anything against the Enneagram per say, but it really bothers me how some people utilize it to rationalize all the stuff about the characters that doesn't work.

Shion does not start to act true to both her personal history and her Type until deep into XS2 and XS3, which ironically happens the less and less Takehashi is directly involved.  This created sort of a cut-off where I felt her character changed for no reason.  At first she was a cute ditzy scientist who, aside from a short temper, is sympathetic and deeply caring to everyone she meets.  She suddenly became this restless soul with no patience for anyone.  When I read about the writer changes and Takehashi's  enneagram inspiration, it makes sense to me.  The new writers must have been trying to make her more authentically Shion-like than Takehashi had even managed to do in XS1.  

I never considered that. I'm not sure how E3 Shion fits into the Enneagram, because I don't remember her alleged personality type, but the idea that she could be more true to it than E1 Shion is very intriguing. In any case, I was definitely more interested in Shion as a character, when she became more involved and consistent, when she stopped being a cipher in E3.

As for Shion being a passive character in XS1, I totally agree.   Where I differ is that I don't believe Shion needed to be an active character in order for the story to have succeeded, but that she is a poor passive character.  I think better character-driven writing on the whole would have sufficed.  A character-driven story can work, but it still needs to be, you know, driven by something.  

I wouldn't say the story couldn't have succeeded with Shion being passive. I mean, I've seen some programs and films with passive characters and they make it work - Carnivale is a great example - but Shion's almost complete non-involvement in the plot and lack of any real character development in Episode 1 definitely makes her poorly passive. Like you said, Cherenkov's whole story was more interesting and he was also fairly tangential to the main plot.

Xenosaga would be like, a drink randomly appears in the midst of a cosmic phenomenon you don't understand, and you never really find out why.  But hell, may as well drink it.

Good metaphor.  

The problem is that Shion is so flighty, so out of touch with reality, that absolutely no event seems to register on her radar.  Any chance for motivation to tie into the story is lost on her. I generally liked her, but I felt very ambivalent to her part of the story.  I looked at her as KOS-MOS's sidekick.  That is a concept that also could have worked, if she were not the series main character.  

Oh, definitely. I mean, it's really problematic when your ostensible main character has no graspable motive, no actual connection to what's happening and less to do than the people on the side. And KOS-MOS is easily the most active of all the main characters.

It also makes Allen completely redundant.

Oh, yes.

Xenosaga did not make it work, but it could have.

Seconded.

I think I differ slightly on is your suggestion of streamlining the story to omit several arcs, and this is also related to my support of a character-driven narrative.  

My complaint with the narrative in Xenosaga I is not that so many of the events fail to move the plot forward, but that they have absolutely no effect on  the characters who experience those events.  The Cathedral Ship sequence, while completely unrelated to the "

getting to Miltia"

platform of the entire game's plot, or the “protect the Y-data” parts that interrupted it later, could have added invaluable depth to Shion's character, as well as the other characters whose fates are directly linked to the Gnosis phenomenon and its causes.  

That's totally valid. I probably would've had less issues with all that stuff if it actually had some consequence for the characters, like maybe affect KOS-MOS' way of thinking about the world or affected Shion profoundly.

I mean, the good thing about standalone episodes is that they allow for a greater degree of character development and world-building for sure. But when the events are so inconsequential that they don't even register on anyone's radar later, that's when I take umbrage

I believe that Xenosaga got caught in this identity struggle, where it wants to retain all the world-building and character-exploring extras that make an older style of JPRG fun, but tries to present it in a new age cinematic experience.  It doesn't parse.  And that we seem to agree on, but what I think is that it should have been more like a game by keeping all that stuff and just doing it better, where as you seem to project it would have been more successful if it were more like a movie, and removed all that stuff.

I think that's very true. But my opinion has changed over time, especially in regard to world-building, which I've come to understand had been intrinsic to both videogames, science-fiction and travel narratives, where space communicates story. Right now, I definitely think the game could've kept it in but done it better - it's telling that DS wound up creating optional subchapters.

So this post is way too long already.  I will come back after I've read more.

I really appreciate long and well thought-out responses like this. Thank you.  

Thanks, glad that you appreciate it.

The space-travel element is something I find interesting on another broader topic. Why aren't many JRPGs set in futuristic, space-faring universes? Especially considering how franchises like Star Trek and Dr. Who have come back into mainstream popularity. The only other one I have personally played is the Star Ocean franchise, and it confines itself to generic fantasy planets for most of your play time.

On E-types.

Shion's E-type is described this way in the Study Guide:

* Enneagram Type

According to Enneagram personality classification, Shion is classified in her behavior aspect with a type 7 characteristic (talent-rich / impulsive / excessive / high-spirited). This type tends to endlessly search for new stimulus, but the more they act and the more they search, the more they become unable to be satisfied. In very serious times, they are convinced that they have been "robbed" of worthwile experiences, and may become as if greedily wanting everything. At an unhealthy state such as this, they become self-centered, only wanting to satisfy their desires. Shion is of this state. The root cause of this unhealthy state was the deep fear of the death and nothingness that kept on surrounding Shion during her life.

Shion can further be classified as a Sexual variant type 7. This subtype is more idealistic than the Self-pres 7. They are dreamers, tending to look at all things with the optimism of someone who's in love. They are more gullible, living in a world of possibilities, and can be manipulated by a smart partner. There's an over-compensation of happiness over pain or difficult life. They rather stay in their dream.

The dreamy, upbeat, and impulsive Shion is the one that we meet in XS1.  It's not until later in XS2 that we start to see the dark side of this type, which drives her internal conflict.  Her selfishness and and delusional sense of being "robbed" of precious time and experiences propel her forward.  In XS3 it goes into full tilt, with her being manipulated by Kevin, and experiencing a crippling fear of her own death.

This E-type's struggle is the primary struggle of Xenosaga's story, in the end.  Shion feels robbed of her best experiences and seeks to fulfill her own desires, and that is the basis of her initial attraction to the idea of eternal recurrence in the game.  The more this develops, the more concise the game's plot becomes.  

Even in XS3, I must say, her actions seemed at times extreme and ridiculous, ignoring certain events and neglecting to ask any questions about them.

And again, retcons may have affected her character development.  A fear of nothingness is central to her E-type, yet aside from the Cherenkov subplot (which is never mentioned again) she never grapples the concept of becoming a Gnosis, or ending up on the Beach of Nothingness.  

I would have liked to see that, although it presents a little bit of a problem with the Gnosis set-up.  If people who become Gnosis are those who reject the world, then I can definitely see how Cherenkov would fit in there.  He seemed comforted and at home in that place.  But Shion, she loves the world, and is in fact terrified of being pulled away from it.  So, if a key factor to becoming a Gnosis is the subconscious will to be separate from the SC (or whatever), then how would Shion ever become a Gnosis, considering she is ultimately terrified of the very idea?  The cause/effect relationship between these two points is shady.

Random thoughts and ramblings in no particular order.

At times I am baffled by your extreme nit picking and centering on the most minor of details. But at other times, too, I enjoy it. I enjoy it when you are able to see beyond the scope of the relevant, and donâ€t just take words at ancillary face value. For example, you spent an excruciating amount of time attempting to dissolve the centre of the end of the Xenosaga world, theoretically and literally. But you either ignored, or chose not to mention (and havenâ€t thus far in the entire analysis) that the game world is influenced heavily by religious ideas of all kinds.

In my interpretation, for example, there isnâ€t one particular diagnostic end of world catalyst, but that all, acting together, serve as the cup of inequity. Think about, in more abstract terms, what the end of the world means in the Xenosaga universe. The primary theme is imbalance—an imbalance of consciousness and an imbalance of power. It becomes obvious then, that the primary reference here is the biblical cup of inequity. It essentially says that when there is a great power imbalance, of any kind, though especially of an overbearing “evil” intention, the world will be thrust into turmoil, where it is necessary to cleanse and purge the imbalance. So, again in my opinion, the game beating around the bush and not pin pointing the root of catastrophe, just signals to me that that particular point is irrelevant. As a player, we learn that there is an imbalance of some kind occurring, and that the Gnosis and Anima are contributing factors. Thatâ€s really all we need to know. And in this understanding, it becomes arbitrary and pointless to attempt to pin-point one factor that causes the end of the world, because the understanding is that there are multiple, and they all act in tandem. With this understanding, it makes the central actors much less confused in their proclamations.

To be honest, I havenâ€t played the series in some time, but, when Nigredo shoots Yuriev, is it ever outright exclaimed, by a character or otherwise, that he was shot dead and not just simply wounded? This was my interpretation, that Nigredo acted out, shot Yuriev, but that the shot didnâ€t kill him. It would explain the events carrying on either before or after his shooting (depending on where you place it on the time line), and why after the shooting, the URTVs were still kept in containment.

I find the concept of U-DO utterly fascinating and one of Xenosagaâ€s strongest potential themes. It is largely squandered however. The examination of said concept can only develop upon the instigation of any particular interpretation. For example, if U-DO was an AI that eventually gained consciousness by virtue of being in contact with a higher dimension, is that a reflective definition, or one extended by virtue? In laymanâ€s terms, did the AI actually develop a consciousness or was the infinite energy known as the HD converted into a “God personality” by virtue of filter through an AI? Personally, I like this description (the latter), since by definition, something that is beyond physical reality, like any being within the HD, would naturally by extension not be restrained within the confines of a rigidly constructed physical world. Pure and simple, God, at least in the Xenosaga universe, is infinite energy. Channelled through an AI, God is given personality, or at least, a means to associate and interact with the limited, physical world. All the things that originate from the HD (anima, animus, energy waves and consciousness) are bound in a large expanse of infinite and potential energy. As such, it doesnâ€t really matter when and how this energy is filtered, utilized and processed, so long as it originates from this singular source. This is corroborated by the term, collective unconscious, itself. I think in a way, itâ€s a waste of time to split hairs, in attempting to identity the utility markers of such things as anima, animus, Zohar, Lemegeton and their brethren, when theyâ€re essentially the same thing, a means to potential energy. Whatâ€s interesting about U-DO though, is that itâ€s essentially a mask that attempts to contain and understand itâ€s own energy, and by connection, itâ€s own existence. With this understanding, there can be no doubt how the Xenosaga universe came to be. There is no fundamental question as to why or how. By slapping an AI onto the essential power that created the universe, the universe itself essence a self reflective personality, or in other words, the energy that comprised the universe in infinite non-measurable and non-quantifiable terms, became self-aware. Think of the conversation Shion has with U-DO. He doesnâ€t seem interested in pursuing any sort of agenda. He asks her reflective, internal and philosophical questions. God, then, ironically, is originally a being that doesnâ€t have cognitive, reflective or introspective abilities. God is simply a collective energy. With the ability and means to obverse, God begins to wonder exactly who and what it is, and what humans, from either domain, want from it. The fact that Abel exists is a little bothersome. With this interpretation, he isnâ€t particularly necessary. Acting as a physical, observational unit of U-DO, is unnecessary in this context. On the connection level too, U-DO cannot act, and thus the interpretation that it is malicious, or even able to enforce phenomena, flawed. As a collective, it is ensconced within the very fibre of EVERY being, physical or otherwise. God then, is a tragic figure. It is being used in the form of energy, but at the cost of itâ€s own “life-force”, essentially. Tragic, too, then are peopleâ€s fears of God, since it is not inherently evil. At least from Shionâ€s encounter with the AI, or God on the personality level, God ponders his or her own existence. Anyway, I am eternally anticipating your part regarding U-DO, if I hadnâ€t made that retroactively apparent by this ridiculous rant.

I really enjoyed reading these. I am often baffled by the fan mentality. Just because you enjoy something and hold it close to your heart that does not mean it is infallible. I actually see your deconstruction of the series as a labor of love. I see it in a more positive light, as an affirmation of what could have been. The series had so much potential, and I donâ€t think anyone can claim that that potential was fully realized. The defensive fan reaction just reeks of insecurity and a misunderstanding on a fundamental level of the series, in my opinion. On that note though, what you are addressing however, is mostly narrative and technical in scope. I would be interested if you took a more macro approach, and just spoke of your opinion of the concepts, themes and characters presented within the series.

Thanks for the long reply, Sonic. I'm glad you enjoyed reading at least some of these.

(Out of curiosity, are you the same Sonic Reaper, who's been posting way back on zenosaga?)

But you either ignored, or chose not to mention (and haven’t thus far in the entire analysis) that the game world is influenced heavily by religious ideas of all kinds.  

Well, that wasn't really the focus of my writing, but it will probably come up sooner or later.

 As a player, we learn that there is an imbalance of some kind occurring, and that the Gnosis and Anima are contributing factors.  That’s really all we need to know.  And in this understanding, it becomes arbitrary and pointless to attempt to pin-point one factor that causes the end of the world, because the understanding is that there are multiple, and they all act in tandem.  With this understanding, it makes the central actors much less confused in their proclamations.

They don't act in tandem - that's the issue. The series keeps basing different plot points on conflicting and contradictory models of universe destruction, so much so that by the end, you wind up with a fairly incoherent narrative. One source will tell us one thing, another guide will say it's a different cause.

To be honest, I haven’t played the series in some time, but, when Nigredo shoots Yuriev, is it ever outright exclaimed, by a character or otherwise, that he was shot dead and not just simply wounded?  

It's confirmed that Gaignun killed him multiple times throughout. Yuriev, for example calls him: "The Son that killed me."


Though I assume one could argue that Gaignun could've killed him later, after he recovered from his shooting. But I don't think that would make a lot of sense either. Plus, the way the e2 flashback plays out, I always saw Gaignun taking a headshot.

In layman’s terms, did the AI actually develop a consciousness or was the infinite energy known as the HD converted into a “God personality” by virtue of filter through an AI?  

Interesting interpretation. I'll have to think about it.

I think in a way, it’s a waste of time to split hairs, in attempting to identity the utility markers of such things as anima, animus, Zohar, Lemegeton and their brethren, when they’re essentially the same thing, a means to potential energy.

But they're not the same thing - they are similar concepts that sometimes double each other. One of the reasons I've been writing these is to disentangle the mess of redundant concepts that are thrown together into the Zarathustra formula. If you think of all of them as puzzle pieces, the problem is that they don't fit together, even though the game pretends they do.

Anyway, I am eternally anticipating your part regarding U-DO, if I hadn’t made that retroactively apparent by this ridiculous rant.

Glad to hear it. Unfortunately, it'll probably have to wait until the Summer.

I really enjoyed reading these.  I am often baffled by the fan mentality.  Just because you enjoy something and hold it close to your heart that does not mean it is infallible.  I actually see your deconstruction of the series as a labor of love.  I see it in a more positive light, as an affirmation of what could have been.  The series had so much potential, and I don’t think anyone can claim that that potential was fully realized.  The defensive fan reaction just reeks of insecurity and a misunderstanding on a fundamental level of the series, in my opinion.  

Thank you for saying that. I really appreciate it and I fully agree with it.

On that note though, what you are addressing however, is mostly narrative and technical in scope.  I would be interested if you took a more macro approach, and just spoke of your opinion of the concepts, themes and characters presented within the series.

I've touched up on some of that I think, but the technical details is what interests me the most. We'll see - my columns expanded way beyond what I've originally projected.

Yes, I would be that same person.  Thanks for the reply.  There's no rush, really.  I've been really getting into reading about video games since the start of this year, about the process and philosophy behind it, and I found these readings particularly interesting because in a way, you are deconstructing the series, but as an outsider, and without all the first hand knowledge and information a developer would have.  

It's interesting, I think you've been very careful and thoughtful to use sources intelligently and where at all possible, and because in a way, you can be more honest about your thoughts and feelings directed towards the series, more so than a developer would.  If that makes sense?  But yeah, anyway, take your time.  I'll be around