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    Gears-Saga Timeline Overlap

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    katimus_prime
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    Gears-Saga Timeline Overlap

    Post by katimus_prime on Tue May 05, 2015 11:58 pm

    Poring over some stuff to make my XG fic run a little more smoothly, I've found something extremely interesting on this page:
    http://www.neoseeker.com/xenogears/faqs/46268-perfect-works.html

    I've outlined some of the more juicy tidbits here. Basically, the year the Eldridge Disaster occurs is denoted in the same way that the year Xenosaga starts is denoted, T.C. (Transcend Christ) 4767. I've double-checked with my copy of the XSI ODM, and all relevant character birthdates check out to match. Xenosaga and Xenogears ended up very different games, but this little stem seems to be the way they both start out, and it makes my little fangirl heart go doki doki.

    Spoiler:

    2001 A.D. - Mankind excavated an Object of Deep Knowledge
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    This era of history was referred to as "At the end the Messiah appears". This rare prophecy
    left behind feelings of fear, and after 1000 years of service mankind entered the beginning of
    the third Millennium.

    2001 A.D.

    The discovery shook the world. An eye shaped object was discovered in a stratum approximately 3.9 billion years old. From its shape, the object appeared to be artificial. Research Organizations made hypotheses about the object and a public announcement was made to the world.
    The geological features from the era of the start of the Earth caused some to believe this
    object was the source of all life, an Artificial Panspermia (Pan-Universal Embryo) and...
    In the academic world there was a number of hypothesis that started to give it unusual,
    romantic and jumbled opinions and speculations about what it was. A flood of them focused on the grounds of existence of the object and what it was. Its existence was puzzling and there were many questions surrounding this artificial creation.
    There was a lot of deep confusion surrounding the object and many reckless, blind hypothesis's were made. But this and other hypothesis met their demise. Dating of the object found it to be from 15 billions years ago, confirming the belief that it existed since the beginning of the universe.
    The official announcements about the object helped increase the confusion. This object, if not of artificial creation was already from a Godlike domain. Eventually the object, which had magnetic properties was labelled MAM(Magnetic Abnormal Matter) for convenience.
    Research on a national scale was conducted on the object but problems arose with the budget, which was eventually frozen.
    One group of voluntary researchers continued with very detailed analysis. These researchers gave the object another name. The name was Zohar.

    Timeline transitioning from A.D. to T.C.
    Spoiler:

    Timeline:
    ---------
    [A.D.]
    2510 - A project the scope of the entire world, the Space Emigration Project commences.
    15 years ago a national institution was founded that supervised the start of this
    project. The name of the era is changed to TC(Transcend Christ), where 365 days per
    year remains the norm.

    [T.C.]

    0016 - 16 years ago the National Institution was founded people's wish is being realized.
    500 years late an emmigrent fleet leaves the Earth and heads into the abyss of space
    on a journey. Earth is taboo after this, it is known as Lost Jeruselum.
    (Reasons are unknown, most likely due to sudden change in the environment).

    0294 - For roughly 250 years the emmigrent fleet wanders around and discovers a feasible
    residence at the M24 Sagitarius star cluster. They land. This planet becomes a
    beginning, and the land is christened 'Neo Jerusalem'. Emigrent Management and the
    National Institution are reorganized and combined. The first chairman is elected.
    With Neo Jerusalem as a starting point, mankind sets its sights to the abyss of space.

    0295 - The Star Cluster Federation is started.
    New Jerusalem is the principal planet of the Star Cluster Federation.

    -4500 Blank Years-

    The years Pied Piper occurs in in XS are skipped, but the Immigrant Fleet sure is there, and it sure is almost 4800 years old and still crazy by the time XSI hits.

    More timeline, from 24 years prior to the TC year Xenosaga begins, to 15 years prior:
    Spoiler:

    Timeline:
    ---------
    4743 - Through the hand of Archeological Researchers and others, a relic from the Lost
    Jerusalem era, MAM(Magnetic Abnormal Matter) is discovered. It was discovered on
    a transport freight ship belonging to cosmic wanderers in a Pilgrimage Fleet who
    worshiped an ancient religion.
    4744 - MAM analysis is resumed.
    4750 - Through the MAM analysis process, the Phenomenon Alteration Theory comes into existence.
    4751 - Top priority was given to completing research on MAM. Project Zohar is started based this research.
    4752 - The cosmic conflict becomes aggravated.

    4753 is the year of the Miltian Conflict in Saga. HMM. The XG Perfectworks skips a chunk of years, which I guess were filled in when Saga happened because it was a blank space to play with. MAM seems to have been rediscovered the same year Allen Ridgely is born. MAM in this case appears to be very similar to the Marienkind Zohar Emulator, which is recovered in XSI.

    Fast forward to Saga's "two years ago," where the DS game places the disappearance of Ariadne:

    Spoiler:

    4765 - The planet where Project Zohar was destroyed through an accident due to ignorance.
    MAM was discovered drifting and was recovered.

    This is where the discrepancy between the original XSI and XSI & II DS gets annoying. Monolith did a really good job keeping the timeline with Gears matchy-matchy until they change the date of Ariadne's demise from 4765 to 4767 for the original XSI on the PS2. I'm very interested in seeing the DS game translated, because I'm sure Commander Cherenkov's high-strungedness plays out very differently. Although, I believe in XSI, 4765 is the year of the KOS-MOS Archetype Incident, so there's that, too. Does anyone know if they changed the date for that in the DS game as well?

    Here's the last bit of the timeline before Gears gets into Gears-only territory:
    Spoiler:

    4766 - Work on Control System Kadamony and Zohar is finished for the time being.
    Kadamony's central element, Persona is developed although the details are unknown.
    The Strategic Integration Weapon System Deus is developed to stop the current cosmic
    war. Zohar is to be used at its main engine.
    4767 - In March Zohar becomes Deus's main engine. Both systems were connected at
    NGC6744(Note 1), aka Miktam 04 Beta Immigrant Planet (immigration was taking place at a satellite during construction). That same year, due to unknown reasons there was an
    accident and both systems went haywire, invading the environment of Miktam 04 Beta.
    Quite an enormous amount of damage was dealt. Deus's amazing and uncontrollable power was such a threat that the military made a great sacrifice to force it into suspended
    activity. Afterwards analysis concluded that Deus's core had to be sealed. After an
    investigation the Enterprise's Large Space Cruiser Eldridge was commanded by the
    military. Approximately 120 million workers, survivors, and colonies were safeguarded
    by going on board the Eldridge.

    4767 - Midway through the trip Deus (in suspended condition) unexpectedly started up. Deus
    was sealed, but it was able to use Zohar to hack into the Eldrige Mainframe, the
    Artificial Electronic Brain Raziel. Metastasis mode started and Deus changed the
    Eldridge's plan to the Main Planet. Eldridge Captain Shigeyoshi Inoue, of the Research
    HQ and also a Special Duty Captain decided to evacuate the ship. He tried to use the
    ship's blast plug on the hull, but Deus suppressed it and made its use impossible.
    Hidden circuits via the Spinal Shaft were executed(Note 2). This caused the Spinal
    Shaft to separate (Note 3). This was done in desperation when facing reality and the
    Eldridge lost its mass balance and navigational control. Thus, the Eldridge hurled into
    the atmosphere of a nearby planet. Gravity dealt damage to the Eldridge's hull and
    blocks of the ship were destroyed. The Eldridge used its emergency navigation during
    the collission which saved some of the blocks in the collision. The central hull of the
    ship, containing Deus's real form sunk to the bottom of the Ocean. Zohar sank elsewhere [probably at Point Bethlehem -Kat] at many kilos per second. Before that, Zohar separated Kadamony from the ship, which had a soft landing near the coastline of a nearby continent.

    Although it's spelled differently, you can definitely recognize Michtam in that second block of info. Michtam/Abraxas in Xenosaga and the Miktam in Gears seem to have tragedy take place on them in different eras and serve to be different points of story. The tragedy with the Gnosis on Michtam occurred in 4747, which has no significant assignment in the Gears timeline.

    I have no idea if a thread resembling this on any of the older forums that have come and gone exists, buuuut now I've made this one (WITH MY OWN HANDS), so...uh, ain't this neat? I think it's neat...


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    Re: Gears-Saga Timeline Overlap

    Post by Neosmith on Thu May 07, 2015 8:25 am

    Thanks for posting, Kat. There were definitely some timeline discussions on the old forums, especially in terms of the sagas possibly existing in one continuity.

    Regarding the DS - I'm not entirely sure if the DS actually did the 2 year difference anymore - there was a discussion on Tensei about the conflicting timeline and it's possible the 2 year difference was a mistake written in one area, but not in another - I'm not sure.

    In any case, the KOS-MOS incident date was never changed.
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    stitchedmoon

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    Re: Gears-Saga Timeline Overlap

    Post by stitchedmoon on Thu May 07, 2015 8:59 am

    Oh my gosh that's so cool. *w*  It makes me wonder how the stories would have fit together if Xenosaga had gone as initially planned.


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    Re: Gears-Saga Timeline Overlap

    Post by RadicalDreamer on Thu May 07, 2015 11:37 am

    @stitchedmoon wrote:Oh my gosh that's so cool. *w*  It makes me wonder how the stories would have fit together if Xenosaga had gone as initially planned.

    You mean... if Xenosaga didn't get screwed by Namco or if Xenogears Episode 1 wasn't refused by Squaresoft, leading Takahashi and his team to leave and create Monolith Soft ?

    I don't think Xenosaga would have fit Xenogears's timeline more if Namco hadn't screwed Monolith over (or if Monolith had been better prepared as a new gaming company). Xenosaga is what it is because Takahashi left Squaresoft and lost the rights to his Xenogears saga. Without the rights, he was forced to deviate from his original plans for Xenogears 1 anyway. The setting (and some year events that Katimus posted) and the idea for a few characters were kept (Shion, Ziggy and MOMO were supposed to be Xenogears 1 characters, I think). And some naming were re-used as well (which is a bit weird I guess... they could re-use Zohar and a little boy named Abel *who looks identical to little Abel in Xenogears* without getting sued by Square... maybe names like Zohar are considered public domain *plus, the Zohar in Xenosaga had a slightly different design*).

    I think we could more or less compare Xenosaga to animes like the first Full Metal Alchemist. Those animes that are adaptations of ongoing/unfinished mangas and are forced to deviate from the source material because of this. Just replace "ongoing/unfinished manga" with "losing the rights to an unfinished saga". Except that Xenosaga didn't just deviate from the original source. It re-used and mixed stuff from the existing Xenogears game as well (Young Master ---> Little Master... one example among too many to list).

    I wanted to believe in the Xenogears/Xenosaga connection, back in the days. Especially when I finished Xenosaga 3. Unfortunately, the connection isn't really possible... ever since Xenosaga 1 was made (even Takahashi tried to discourage the notion that Xenosaga was a real prequel when the first game was released) but people still hoped at the time (which was the cause for some getting disappointed in Xenosaga).

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    Re: Gears-Saga Timeline Overlap

    Post by Neosmith on Thu May 07, 2015 4:16 pm

    Well, the whole idea of there being multiple possible timelines in XS though kinda opens the door towards the Gears connection. Soraya Saga supposedly once mentioned that an idea they had was to have Durandal dock with Elridge or something.
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    Re: Gears-Saga Timeline Overlap

    Post by katimus_prime on Thu May 07, 2015 8:37 pm

    The thing about the Eldridge is that it appears to be the same kind of class of ship as the Durandal, so I believe such a docking is very possible.  The mass of the Eldridge as described in PW is waaaaaaay bigger than my perception of the Durandal, though.

    http://xeno-underground.net/xg_pw/PW009.jpg

    And yeah, XS broke off from XG and became its very own thing.  That's absolutely not in dispute here.  Monolith made it pretty clear of the official split by the time XS2 came out (which really disappointed me at the time, but by that time I cared enough about the series to see the rest through).  

    Zohar's actually an IRL term.  It's the name for a very important collection of books in Kabbalah, which is kind of a discourse about Judaism and I think those that follow it consider it a supplement to the Torah. The word Zohar itself means "splendor" or "radiance" according to Wikipedia.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zohar

    I think the whole Abel thing came down to the fact that I don't think anyone who mattered at Squaresoft cared enough to get that reference?  Abel himself in Xenogears Episode I was touched on very very briefly in one anime cutscene in Disc 1 and the one time we see the Gazel Ministry as human where Cain lazers Elly.  Not a whole lot of people remember that.  I mean, well, we do, but.  Hehe.  I don't think they thought it was enough to sue over. Most people who hadn't played Gears all the way through may have just thought that the kid was designed to look like Fei, which is also correct.


    I'm just kinda thinking of ways I can kinda pepper my Xenogears fic with Saga stuff and I'm kinda basking in the glow of how this matches up for now.  A Xenogears Episode I would be vastly different to the Xenosaga I we got, I'm quite sure.  I'm actually really interested in both.  :3


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    Re: Gears-Saga Timeline Overlap

    Post by Yikari on Fri May 08, 2015 10:00 am

    Personally, I'm a bit more interested in how realian folk are integrated in Xenosaga's society.

    There is the mention of a bill of equal rights being finally pushed through in Federation's government after the Miltian conflict, but I kind of don't see any noticeable difference during the games' proper - what, fifteen years later after the fact? Realians are still purpose-made for the their jobs though, phenotype, implants and all, though (100-series being a prime example), supposedly without even having a right to their own face. Central nervous system override is still there as well.

    And, while I doubt that all people in the Migrant Fleet are as radically religiously extremist as some of Ormus' command, I seriously doubt no one over there has raised some stink over realians not having souls or somesuch nonsense to justify discrimination.

    I do not mean to imply that I find what you list here uninteresting, but it has dates and numbers in it and my head just refuses to work with that right now, so I'd need some time see if there is anything I can comment on.

    (Also, I kind of have been binging some Megaman playthroughs on youtube recently, and there are some things after a certain point in the MMX series that the whole mess becomes crossoverable with Xenosaga. And my thoughts kind of default into that direction. So, yeah...)
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    Re: Gears-Saga Timeline Overlap

    Post by katimus_prime on Fri May 08, 2015 7:00 pm

    Yeah, no worries, Yikari. Xenosaga's social worldbuilding far outclassed Gears' to the point of hyperbole. I think they had a lot more room to do that with a much more Sci-Fi setting. Gears is also Sci-Fi, but it's very low tech compared to Saga.


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