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    seishoujo

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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by seishoujo on Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:20 am

    I think, if Takahashi and Saga want to remake the series they should (maybe) ask Sega to buy Xenosaga copyright from Namco (welp, sounds like a lot of trouble too, duh) and continue the series. I guess... confused Copyright, why?? Why you Japanese must do such thing to copyright...??

    Personally, I think if both of them didn't give up Xenosaga I think the series will gain popularity again. Besides, I was so nervous after reading their original plot/story plan for Xenosaga. I'd be dying to never see them on the TV screen.

    It would take more than money (and stuffs) to be able to revive Xenosaga since Takahashi and Saga themselves didn't look like turning back again to Xenosaga.
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    kare_reiko
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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by kare_reiko on Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:54 am

    Well it's not all because of Takahashi and Saga, Namco done a lot damage but fans of that times were biggest problem. Miss Soraya got a lot emails... Bad emails after she was trow out by Namco, and most were really awful, they ever\n blame her for Ep2 story that she didn't work on, second part was that Xenosaga wasn't more like Xenogears.
    Both of them were hurt really bad by Namco and Fans so I'm no surprised that they give up and don't want to bring Xenosaga back.


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    Neosmith

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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by Neosmith on Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:18 am

    I dont know if you guys have heard of VGChartz but they do a pretty good job of compiling video game sales information for years that are not the current fiscal year. They are a little iffy for the current fiscal year because they have a habit of constantly updating their numbers with no notice but the old years are very consistent.

    From what I gather, they shouldn't be trusted. Various posters on previous forums discredited them.
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    Tehrin

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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by Tehrin on Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:10 pm

    @answerawake wrote:If Namco owns the right, have they given you any troubles over any of your xenosaga work?

    When Xenosaga 3 was released, they were really hyping a lot of fanworks and fan contributions from the community on their official English site. I remember submitting a lot of fan art and a ton of avatars I made that were displayed on the website itself, and linking to my own fan websites in the forums. So I think they really see it as free advertisement. Even after it's been several years and PS2 is a little bit old and dusty (now 2 gens later) there are always new fans hopping aboard, and perhaps the interest in the previous games might relate to sales of other games which involve those characters (KOS-MOS/TELOS etc). I think that they realize that none of us are really out there to profit from it (and if we do, it's usually fan-art and that doesn't really garner too much of a profit) and just let it be. Whereas other companies like Disney are sue-happy if anyone so much as earns a penny off their properties.

    I think this sort of mentality comes more from the Japanese side where doujin (comiket) is quite popular and it's seen as free advertisement. The artists might not make much profit, but it makes for great advertisement and hype that the company doesn't have to pay for.
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    katimus_prime
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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by katimus_prime on Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:14 pm

    Can I +1 your post, Rin? +1 to this post.


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    Tehrin

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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by Tehrin on Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:21 pm

    @katimus_prime wrote:Can I +1 your post, Rin?  +1 to this post.

    Very Happy

    Also I forgot! The graphic packs they had! They literally provided us with high-res PNGs/PSDs to make whatever the hell we pleased. It's like, here's some material MAKE STUFF!  Or otherwise, "HERE ADVERTISE FOR US!"



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    stitchedmoon

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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by stitchedmoon on Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:58 am

    I'll second your +1, Kat. +2 to Rin's post!


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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by answerawake on Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:15 pm

    Hello everyone I apologize for the delay in response. It has been a hectic week. Thank you so much for all of your responses. This community is really awesome and it really is clear that the passion and love for this series is still very strong.

    There were a couple things I was hesitant to bring up but because I see this community is so strong and dedicated to this game, I will be starting more discussions soon!

    @kare_reiko wrote:I don't know why they had information about sales of Ep1 and Ep3 in Europe since those part were never relased in our place, all copies that people have here are from importing so I'm not so sure if it's count as something that was sold in Europe

    Kare_reiko, I am not sure why they have those numbers. Maybe VGChartz is getting sales data from other sources such as import sites as well? If you watch the video I list below with Michael Pachter he states they don't just go after sales numbers released by companies, they have contacts with retailers, distributors as well as others in the gaming industry. They may be recording numbers from import sites.

    I agree that Episode 2 had a lot to do with where Xenosaga is now but it may have been a combination of Episode 2 sales and the merger happening at a time when Namco really did not have extra money to sink into games that did not sell well.

    Regarding Animation costs, It was probably cheaper to fund the animation than to produce another game  I believe it was on the order of 20Million to produce a PS2 era game. It was a lot more to produce a PS3 era game so there is that. :/

    @BlueMetal wrote:I wasn't into Xenosaga during the time Episode 2 was being made and such, but did the game even get much advertisement? A game's sales can be hurt quite a lot if it didn't get squat for exposure.

    BlueMetal, I agree with you completely! Have you guys seen the Xenosaga ads? Because of my recent obsession with Xenosaga, I have been hunting down all related info on Xenosaga. I found the ads on Youtube.

    I want you guys to take a look at the following ad and pretend like you have never heard of Xenosaga before. Now pretend like you are a gamer but only an occasional JRPG player.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcfbxuFpx98

    Those two groups seem like the people that would be the majority of non "hardcore" customers for Xenosaga. Tell me, are you sold on the game by seeing that?? Seems like that ad only appeals to existing Xenosaga fans lol  Razz  The things is though, they probably did the best they could. How DO you advertise a JRPG game in 30 seconds? I am not a marketing major so I don't know lol.

    Also there was this odd one out of japan but I will hold judgement on that because the ad creators have more context of the Japanese market than I do:  Again pretend you have never heard of the game before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N76yLgf7pWg

    @BlueMetal wrote:Another thing that could affect that is if there was another big release that was right next to it. Did a major Final Fantasy game, for example, come out close to it?

    Yes and No. The following pictures are screenshots from Wikipedia article showing games released around the launch of each Xenosaga games.
    https://i.imgur.com/LwWiPo7.png">https://i.imgur.com/LwWiPo7.png
    https://i.imgur.com/0RwV62w.png
    https://i.imgur.com/ysCLtSr.png

    The thing is that because of the large library of PS2 games(3870 according to Wikipedia) there was always big game around the corner throughout the whole main lifespan of the console lol. That means that Xenosaga always had to compete against some good game that just launched.

    @seishoujo wrote:I think, if Takahashi and Saga want to remake the series they should (maybe) ask Sega to buy Xenosaga copyright from Namco (welp, sounds like a lot of trouble too, duh) and continue the series.

    seishoujo, yea then Xenosaga might end up like Shenmue, it will never be finished lol.

    BTW I love your avatar. That KOSMOS drawing is really nice. Did you draw that?

    @seishoujo wrote:Personally, I think if both of them didn't give up Xenosaga I think the series will gain popularity again.

    Personally, I think that money was more of a problem. It got even more expensive to develop PS3 games and by the time Namco made their decision they must have started to calculate the cost of game development or at least project it. I did read somewhere that Takahashi did not want to touch Xenosaga for 10 years, well it is past 10 years for the first game so hopefully we see something  Smile


    @Kare_reiko wrote:Miss Soraya got a lot emails... Bad emails after she was trow out by Namco, and most were really awful, they ever\n blame her for Ep2 story that she didn't work on

    Kare_reiko, did Miss Soraya talk about this on her blog or somewhere else. That sounds really bad. Why would people be mad if they knew she was not involved in Xenosaga2?


    Regarding VGChartz,
    @Neosmith wrote:From what I gather, they shouldn't be trusted. Various posters on previous forums discredited them.

    Yes many have had doubts about VGChartz. Have you heard of Michael Pachter? He is an analyst of the video game industry that is quoted a lot by major publications. He does a weekly web show called Pach-Attack where people ask him about the games industry. He had this to say about VGChartz:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI9_XqhMY8I#t=108   (starts at 1:48 if it does not automatically seek there)


    Tehrin,

    Thanks for your info on what Namco did during the US launch of Xenosaga 3. Have you guys heard what happened this week regarding Youtube and many gameplay videos? Their automated copyright system has been taking down monetized gameplay video and this has caused a big stink with the game play video creators. Many game companies were quick to give their opinion on the subject and surprisingly, many have said that they WANT gamers to make videos and have stated that if any gamers have trouble with youtube, to contact them and they will help.

    http://kotaku.com/youtube-copyright-chaos-continues-game-publishers-to-t-1481517758

    WOW! what timing! Just as we are talking about this very topic this stuff happens in the news. I wonder if companies were more or less restrictive regarding this stuff back then. Clearly they understand that fan made stuff helps to provide additional advertising and a committed fan base is a great thing to have!  Smile

    "The graphic packs they had! They literally provided us with high-res PNGs/PSDs to make whatever the hell we pleased."



    Tehrin, Do you have access to these graphics packs still? I'd love to take a look!
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    Tehrin

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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by Tehrin on Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:15 pm

    @answerawake wrote:Tehrin, Do you have access to these graphics packs still? I'd love to take a look!

    I probably have them all somewhere, but I've changed computers at least 2-3 times since then. The files I know I have offhand are mostly for Ziggy and Allen since I have fan sites dedicated to them. (have meaning, sitting there dusty, currently offline due to domain issues haha) I'm sure someone might have them though. Or they'd be on any Xeno fansite that has a gallery. They were really just zip files of character renders and some 2-D official art you've probably seen a dozen times though. Smile But it was a really nice gesture. Especially when making fan sites, you have to hunt down artbooks, scan them, and edit them.
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    kare_reiko
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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by kare_reiko on Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:54 am

    You talk about those fankits? I have one in zip (number 3), I think I had no.4 too but I probably sort it into other folders on my Xenosaga collection, I never seen no 1 and 2 if they'd exist.
    I think there was fankits for ep2, here are HQ pictures of characters from ep2 so it should be from official pack too.

    About Soraya's comments. Someone'd save comments that were on her blog at that time, I think on Xenoten A.C. did post them again but you would need to dig thought XT archive to find it. I remember most of developing thing was on other old Xensaga forum that was closed like 4 years ago :/...


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    katimus_prime
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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by katimus_prime on Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:15 pm

    RE: The Fankits, in an effort to show them off, looks like they got misplaced. I found 'em and put them back where they were!
    http://xeno-underground.net/kare/xs1_fankit/
    http://xeno-underground.net/kare/xs2_fankit/
    http://xeno-underground.net/kare/xs3_fankit/
    They need to be cleaned (lulz) but we have 'em. :3


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    chaos

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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by chaos on Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:58 am

    Hi Guys

    In regard to problems during development, Xenosaga was massively hyped in Japan before its launch, a 6 part epic spiritual sequel to what many consider the best RPG of all time Xenogears.

    The first episode was met with mixed reactions from fans and critics, and even though it sold well, it didn't sell nearly no where near what was expected.

    This caused a big shake up within monolithsoft and they decided to refresh the look and feel of the game for episode 2 and reorganise the development team, Takahashi and Soraya who created Xenosaga wrote the script for the episode II but development was handled by other staff members and they took the back seat.

    The new team looked to address a lot of the criticisms of the first game, long cut scenes, Visual style, lack of music, and so what we got was the stripped back version of episode II which was heavily cut down from the original script. Many key staff were replaced, Mitsuda, Tanaka, and of course Takahashi and Soraya weren't leading the development of episode II.

    When Soraya saw what the finished episode II was like, she quit the company in anger. Like Kare reiko said, many fans blamed her for this and didn't really understand the situation, we still don't know much about what happened behind the scenes or what was changed from the original script. It was probably personal stuff she was going through at the time that we don't know about but it doesn't sound like knew much of what was going on as now it is clear to see that episode II could no way finish Shions Arc as episode I was cut in half.

    But from the DS version of episode II we can see some of the things that were omitted.

    The second game caused again further split reactions from fans and critics and many fans walked away at this point.

    Seeing as Episode I didn't meet expectations this derailed the whole series essentially and they decided that xenosaga would just show Shions Arc which were originally going to be episode I and II of the 6 part series.

    As Episode II was cut short the rest of the material went into pied piper, missing year and episode III, so what we got was 2 episodes worth of content spread over 5 titles, whereas is should have been 2 large episodes. This is why episode III is a bit packed full of content as they had to squeeze everything into it to finish the arc.

    Although Episode II was largely to blame for the demise of the series it was probably episode I that was over budget, delayed and half the length of what it had should been originally which threw everything off course. This is why the staff changes were made probably by Suiguira, and Takahashi was disappointed and burnt out after episode I and decided to take the back seat and maybe started working on Xenoblade at this point.

    Hopefully they will remake the series at some point as it is my favourite game series of all time, I may even prefer it Xenogears overall.

    Hopefully Monolith retained some of the rights. but I don't know, seems like squaresoft own the right to Xenogears so it is probably the same with Namco. :shaking: :cry3:
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    kare_reiko
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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by kare_reiko on Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:06 pm

    I can add that even for Shion's arc, story in all games that we saw it's only 20-30% of Shion's arc that was planned.


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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by chaos on Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:07 pm

    @kare_reiko wrote:I can add that even for Shion's arc, story in all games that we saw it's only 20-30% of Shion's arc that was planned.

    I dont think that's the case otherwise the original episode I and II would have had to be several hundred hours long, I think we saw all of the ARC across the 3 main games and pied piper and missing year. AC did a xeno timeline comparing xenogears to saga and the storys pretty much follow the same pattern and sync to each other with the different events of the games following the same overall structure, from looking at this he believes that not much was cut from xenosaga in the end.

    In the next episode we would probably have seen Shion but she may not have been the main character, Takahashi mentioned that chaos and Kos-Mos were to be the only characters that are in every episode. The other main characters would probably reincarnate as different new characters that share similarities.
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    chaos

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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by chaos on Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:53 pm

    This from wikipeadia:

    Namco Bandai has sold 80% of Monolith Soft's shares to Nintendo. On May 1, 2007 Namco sold the rest of the 16% of shares, making Monolith Soft one of Nintendo's first-party developers. This leaves any future progression of the Xenosaga series in doubt.

    This doesn't explain whether they sold the rights for Xenosaga to Nintendo though...Lets hope they did.
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    kare_reiko
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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by kare_reiko on Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:10 pm

    I think this % thing was from AC site mostly, I don't remember if he include in that counting Pied piper and missing year. He explain that he find that Takahashi or Soraya said that they include in ep1 only 30% of that they planed first, we know that some X% were moved to ep2 but what it makes ep2? We can say both ep1 and ep2 are only ep1 that was planed and it was make in 60-70%. Ep 3 was trying to fill up as much as possible but we didn't get in the end more the 40% of whole Shion arc.
    Now about Shion arc. I remember that Takahashi said that Shion Arc was suppose to be 2 episodes from 6 part story, but they fast realize that it's impossible to fit it all so they cancel all future parts and it was said that "now" for those 6 parts they will only show Shion Arc, but after episode 2 they had to cut even more to 3 parts.

    I don't say about missing year since all buildings, places arts are clearly just concept arts for game, they cut is as much as possible, so I don't know if there is at last 10% story of first plan in it. If everyone read slowly last 2 chapters of flash animation, narration say about finding Nephilim memory in UMN. When there wasn't said anything about it, soon they jump to something finding all of them when there isn't any searching, we jump from find->

    already got them all

    Grimoire: Yes, I promised you. I'll give you a nice name and pleasant memories. But for that, you must obtain all of the Fragments. Then you can come see me.        

    After few lines Almadel have all fragments inside her:

    Grimoire: You have my gratitude. Thanks to you, she could finally awaken.

    Well, we can talk what, was, what wasn't in game but it won't change anything right now Sad.

    But I'm happy that you remind all about beginning of Xenosaga problems because I forgot why they change makers team after ep1, chaos. And that thanks to you we can still have long talk about Xenosaga, I miss it... T_T


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    chaos

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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by chaos on Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:06 am

    Ah yeah that's right, Episode I originally was supposed to include episode II from the images from the original trailer for the episode I we saw the fight between jin and Margulis, and some other scenes from episode II.

    I will have to read the timeline that AC wrote again I think the original episode I should have run all the way up to pied piper and then Episode II begins with missing year or something like that.

    The original episode I was probably closer to the DS game version that combined I and II but with pied piper also.

    It's so frustrating and I want to see them remake the games as they originally planned them to be, but I guess we are lucky we got what we did really and that they managed to tie most of everything up in episode III. A lot of Episode III was rushed though, imagine how good the game would have been if it had full length cut scenes like episode I, even II had more cutscenes than III...

    For me Episode I is definitely the best version of Xenosaga we saw, its the most cinematic game i've played, and the truest version of how Xenosaga should be. I think the graphics, combat and music are all better than the other games as well. Although the other games had some great moments as well, even II had some amazing moments despite how much they messed it up.

    If any game deserves a remake it's Xenosaga, FF7 is fine how it is.
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    kare_reiko
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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by kare_reiko on Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:56 am

    ^ I would love to see Xenogears remake too Wink That would be epic...


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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by Nikkolas on Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:23 pm

    Doesn't anyone have the XenOTen stuff backed up? Because AC'S History of Xenogears and Xenosaga addressed the Shion's Arc and the alleged six games stuff in detail.

    Man, if only one thing can be saved from that site, it has to be that thing. it was like a doctoral thesis or something in how absurdly long and detailed it was.
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    Valkyrie

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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by Valkyrie on Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:15 pm

    Hi Nikkolas, this is Valkyrie

    Just see my first link here :

    http://xeno-underground.net/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=279&start=50

    Anyway one day I should put the Xeno-history you are talking about on the XU Wiki. But I haven't cleared Xenogears yet, so I don't want to be harshly spoiled. Are you interested in doing this ? This would be kind to you.
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    katimus_prime
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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by katimus_prime on Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:53 pm

    Since I've had to close open registration on the wiki, I still have to make new accounts by hand, but I really would like someone to go through and put up the parts of AC's articles he's given permission for us to post. I thought I could do a better job of it on my own, but work has made it nearly impossible to do. I've also put this message up in the announcements section.


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    Re: Xenosaga rights

    Post by Nikkolas on Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:48 am

    @Valkyrie wrote:Hi Nikkolas, this is Valkyrie

    Just see my first link here :

    http://xeno-underground.net/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=279&start=50

    Anyway one day I should put the Xeno-history you are talking about on the XU Wiki. But I haven't cleared Xenogears yet, so I don't want to be harshly spoiled. Are you interested in doing this ? This would be kind to you.

    Yes I'd be more than happy to re-upload it. It's an invaluable treasure to us Xeno-fans.  I'm free pretty much all the time but I forget to check this site as often as I should. I'll be around more in the near future though to help out.

      Current date/time is Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:00 pm