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    Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstorming?

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    Yikari

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    Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstorming?

    Post by Yikari on Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:39 am

    A little stream-of-consciousness offtopic rambling that probably belongs in the rant section before we begin:

    Spoiler:
    Looking at the threads we already have and taking into account that a good deal of our members are 'old blood' that have been in the fandom for much, much longer than I have, I've come to realisation that pretty much anything and everything I have to say about pretty much any subject has already been said - and in a more coherent and thought-out way than I could possibly do. Any pic, fic, audio cover, etc I could possibly dig out with my meagre google-fu are nowhere near 'new'. Forget about even trying to create something myself, I can't do anything like that. I... I should probablygoaheadanddeletethisacc...

    *clears his throat*

    Anyways, as the thread title suggests, the topic is recreative brainstorming.

    Imagine that you are participating in a fanfiction story creation / discussing possible composition of a fanart / sitting in on a fan-made game conception referendum / etc. You are thinking through what would you do if you were expanding on something - anything - Xenosaga.

    XXX

    - It may be something as simple as "I am more likely to find fanart of Adam Jensen cosplaying as Ziggy than some acutal Ziggy fanart the way things stand. Let's do something about it!  :pirate:"

    - effectively explaining what you would like to see in a comission to an artist willing to inject something fresh into all those deviantarts and such.

    - It may be some simple world-building tangent. For example: "Remember that car chase scene at the beginning of Ep.II? Yes, MOMO is supposed to be a wiz when it comes to such things, but even with that and all the genre conventions in mind, that didn't look like something your run-of-the-mill four-wheeled vehicle could pull off. Maybe the groundcars in Xenosaga have spheres instead of wheels? Imagine your old computer mouse - the one that had a ball inside it, not those lazorz-toting we have now - but instead of you moving the mouse and thus spinning the ball, the ball itself is propelling the mouse [cue mental images of the trusty device suddenly speeding off the desk with a mighty *VROOM* to join in on an improvised game of Carmageddon with its buddies on the floor]?"



    - It may be a character exploration exercise. Just put some of them into a situation of your choice and think about how they would behave. Doesn't necessarily have to be either serious thought-provoking stuff, ("Poor Allen is likely to be the one stuck with trying to make heads or tails out of KOS-MOS' records of her behaviour at the end of Ep.I - Shion has proved herself as being unable to remain rational in her dealings with KOS-MOS and is 'encouraged' by her direct higher-up to take a leave and unwind while the management decides whether it's time to reassign her somewhere else after all."), or something pants-on-head crack ("Looking into Ziggy's term of service for the alien contact investigation subcommittee, one is surprised to find his daily life eerily reminiscent of a bizarre cross of MGS and MIB of sorts. Discuss."). Entirely up to you.

    - It may be something a little more complex, like choosing a part of the games you didn't like and describing what you would've done differently and why.

    Say, I am in a huff about what they've done with chaos and sincerely believe that even simply replacing him with old man Henderson and watching the rest of the character cast squirm would' ve been a better choice and of the opinion that he is the prime candidate for 'mixing things up' if you are doing a fic of any kind.

    For example, regardless of whether you are trying to piece something coherent out of the bits and pieces the canon provides or going in a different direction, chaos (or whoever ends up in his place; from what I can see almost all my suggestions for him would make the dude effectively an OC) is likely to be the eldest character out of the main party, and by a huge margin to boot, unless you decide to junk his backstory entirely and make him younger than Ziggy. That means anachronistic habits and behaviour that may slip through - and with such observant and nosy characters like Jin and Jr. around that's just not gonna stay unmentioned.

    Such things as chaos having not adjusted yet to the various machines' voice command recognition and speech-construction algorithms and thus using something not exactly resembling normal speech when adressing an Auto-Tech or some other AI out of habit. In other words, "Status report" instead of " Are you alright?".

    XXX

    It doesn't matter if you don't have some sort of experience or education in anything - I certainly don't, but it doesn't stop me from having fun with such idea bouncing.

    Oh, and one more thing. I don't think I really need to say this here, but just to reiterate: just because I may happen to have a different opinion on a potentially flamewar material matter (like Ziggy not having a beard  :pirate: enough for my headcanon version of him) or something largely trivial (whether Kevin was bs-ing about him loving Shion or not, for example), or if it comes to discussing a pairing I don't ship, it doesn't mean I will attack you in a fit of frothing rage or won't participate in the discussion if I think I have something to add.
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    kare_reiko
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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by kare_reiko on Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:37 am

    Well as for chaos he have habit of talking to himself and what's not so clear in english version, he mostly (around 70%) starts sentences with "Anyway" ^^.

    MOMO riding skills was nice, to bad that she didn't have more actions like that.


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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by stitchedmoon on Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:20 am

    Oooooh, this sounds like a fun topic~ :3  (And you might be surprised what new members can contribute to the discussion after all this time!  I think there are as many interpretations and/or headcanons of things as there are individual people in this fandom, and I'm always excited to hear what new folks have to say and/or create. :>

    I've definitely enjoyed reading your insights and opinions so far.)

    @Yikari wrote:or something pants-on-head crack ("Looking into Ziggy's term of service for the alien contact investigation subcommittee, one is surprised to find his daily life eerily reminiscent of a bizarre cross of MGS and MIB of sorts. Discuss.").

    I wondered about that a lot.  His past life (both pre- and post- ... er, "recycling") probably has enough material for a couple more cell phone cyberpunk/action/stealth-type games at least.  (I also wish the second and third episodes had followed up more on his badassness instead of relegating him to the background and/or making him get his butt kicked every time a new bad guy showed  up. :<)

    (Also, slightly OT, but I saw in another thread you were interested in stuff about Ziggy from the ODM and other materials, and I do recall there was at least a page on him in there~ :>

    It also reminded me that someone on the old Godsibb had scans of a really really early concept sketch of him and MOMO [and some other characters as well] that I could post up in here if it isn't up somewhere already.)

    Also there's enough unrealized worldbuilding potential in the database(s) and Perfect Guide for, like, a freakin' college thesis on Xenosagaology.


    Last edited by stitchedmoon on Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:14 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by katimus_prime on Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:39 pm

    Hey Stitched, do you happen to remember which book that early concept sketch is from?

    Also, yay, this topic. :D
    I've spent a lot of time thinking about, but never telling anyone, Cherenkov as he was growing up with the other super soldiers and his wife's office drama. Then there's the various iterations on what life on Pleroma was like. All of them were just sort of kept in a box, though.


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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by stitchedmoon on Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:00 pm

    @katimus_prime wrote:Hey Stitched, do you happen to remember which book that early concept sketch is from?

    Eeeep, I wish I knew (as well as who posted it originally--I think it might be buried on the old Sibb forums somewhere).  The text around the images sort of looks like it could be from the ODM or one of the artbooks, buuuuut I dunnoes. D:


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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by katimus_prime on Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:01 pm

    If you post it, I could dig! :3


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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by Guest on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:45 pm

    Completely off topic (well, almost) but the ODM has some... very interesting (!?) early sketches??

    Ahem. Like Gaignun:
    Spoiler:

    I always laugh at it-- he looks more like an adult Jr. than the more suave gentleman-type character we see in the finished games!

    (BTW-- I have a copy of the ODM! Since XT is still down, if anyone would like a page-or-two scanned, I'd be happy to oblige. <3)

    Also... does anyone else find themselves coming up with rough ideas of the characters' sexualities...? I'm pretty certain Gaignun is gay, Shion is bisexual, and Jr. swears he's straight, until he's suddenly a little more "curved" than he thought! I honestly have a rough idea of this for almost every single character. Send help
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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by katimus_prime on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:51 pm

    ^ I actually thought that was a sketch of Grown Up Jr, actually.  Though since they're triplets, it could very well be Gaignun.  :3c  (I also can't read Japanese, so I could be entirely wrong.)
    (By the way, we do have the raw scans of the XSI ODM up here, gaiz.  XD http://xeno-underground.net/info_xenosaga_odm.html  
    What we don't have is the translations.)

    @Quitebrilliantindeed - The page you got that from is this one in the ODM - http://xeno-underground.net/odm/xsi_odm/xsi_odm_030.jpg

    @stitchedmoon - I think this page might be the one you were looking for for Ziggy?  http://xeno-underground.net/odm/xsi_odm/xsi_odm_028.jpg

    And as for character sexuality, I've never given it that much thought, but it seems interesting.  I kind of feel unqualified to judge that sort of thing?


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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by Yikari on Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:03 am

    I don't know about you people, but that Gaignun looks like a mighty rad bloke to me. (Also, reminds me of Gambit somewhat). Although, he is certainly not the Gaignun we've seen in the game proper. Hmm...

    You could always think of this as one of the silly sibling antics they have going sometimes. Like Gaignun managing to out-Jr. Jr. in Jr.'s look on a dare. Or maybe Gaignun goes through 'transformations' such as these on his 'business trips' when he does the dirty spook job for Helmer or something.

    XXX

    There is a page on Ziggy in that ODM translation Val has gifted us with (big thanks for that, by the way); from what I could understand, it says that Ziggy is supposed to be even more noticeably aloof than he usually is in canon. To the point of finding comfort in posing as a part of the interior. And while I find it interesting that they've chosen to go that road, the game kinda misses that idea almost entirely, in my opinion.

    I mean, there are many, many scenes where the party members not directly involved in the current dialogue are just standing around doing nothing. How are we supposed to divine whether it is a deliberate 'closing off' psychological defensive mechanism reaction going on or the game simply skips any possible reactions the characters could have expressed - should have expressed, really - because (for example) someone decided that 'wouldn't it be cool if Old Miltia got all blown up, let's do a FMV cinematic out of it, gaiz!' and it ate the disk space that could've been used for character interaction.

    It is all made worse by an almost complete lack of Ziggy's POV: there are about three (very short) flashbacks we are shown from his perspective and some tidbits during MOMO's rescue sequence, if I remember things right. Everything else is just his behaviour 'from outside', so to speak. It makes it difficult do differentiate 'shying away from human contact in general' from 'keeping mum to stay out of trouble with your higher-ups'. At least I think so.

    Also, there is some inconsistency between what ODM states we see in the game and what the game actually shows to us. Like, say, it states that Cherenkov's team was supposed to steal KOS-MOS during that Archetype incident but the dude that was shown giving something that looked like a left half of the PS2's controller a remote contol for something to Andrew personally 'could've been someone from the research team'. In Ep.I itself (unless I've missed something) it is never acutally stated what Andrew and his men were supposed to do and the strange man who was doing the giving definitely had Kevin's face. So...

    XXX

    Speaking of chaos, I've heard the DS version was supposed to have some sort of explanation about how he came to be on Elsa's crew and whatnot. I probably should go and look into that.

    My personal headcanon makes me think he served with Matthew in several 'interesting' hotspots prior (and maybe after) his brief (?) stint as Canaan's co-pilot. It is, of course, just so I could stick him with the "What about you, sir? - I'm a marine, I'll walk on water if I have to!  :pirate:" quote during one of the obligatory 'someone's gotta stay behind so that others could survive' scenes all episodes have a few of.

    Putting some simple lulz aside, it got me thinking about how he prevents the fact of his, well, immortality getting out. Is there some brainwashing involved? How he gets his identification sorted out? Does he have to 'wear' a 'fleshsuit' to complete the scam (this is a sci-fi set in the grim darkness of the far future, after all)? Maybe he doesn't even have a body of his own and is possessing a corpse or something?

    Planetside's backstory (the first one, the 'sequel' doesn't really have anything in this department) has some interesting basis one can use as a foundation if they don't want to pursue the "chaos was the man behind Jesus' miracles" take on the story for whatever reason.

    TL;DR of the relevant parts: the alien (?) nanotechnology the settlers of a human colony ((permanently?) cut-off from the rest of the humanity) adapted for their use has been quickly discovered to have some frightening properties. Apparently, just as humans were trying to study it, the (as it was later discovered) planet-wide system was studying them; after a certain period of time it has finished doing so and decided it wanted to preserve its new settlers. Imagine the surprise (and utter horror) of the researchers when they saw a dude who got killed in an accident off-loading heavy equipment about three days ago walk out of one the chambers of the underground complex they were trying to make head or tails out of completely unharmed and with perfect recollection up until to the moment of his death. And he was not the only one. Or the only thing either - any and all equipment the humans brought with them on the planet was subject to this too...

    It just strikes me as an interesting base for a story regardless of whether chaos' unique characteristics hail from that incident or not. I just like to think about what would happen when an expidition from the rest of human space finally stumbles upon an isolated pocket of such people that have been warring between themselves long enough to forget about the fear of death. What will they see?

    Alpha Centauri (a Civilization spin-off) is good for such things too. What does the human contingent of the final hope of all humanity sent away from the uninhabited Earth does upon finally arriving to a suitable world? Why, start a free-for-all war, of course!

    Homeworld with its utterly  :pirate: 'refugee caravan' and 'simple mining operation' (which is by itself could mesh with Gurren Lagann with a snip of Shadow Raiders for complete crazy awesome) could find its place too.

    It is maybe wrong of me to steal intergrate plots of other stories so brazenly, but I feel that Xenosaga is lacking in 'meat', so to speak, and could use a couple (or ten) such absorbed and readjusted plot archs to fill in some of the missing bulk. Besides, there are quite a few people who enjoy puzzling out 'where they've seen this before' as they read.

    XXX

    As for this, I usually end up debating 'is there some chemistry between this characters or is it just some ship tease on the creators' part' at the most. I am boring that way.
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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by Yikari on Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:48 am

    Kinda random: am I the only one who wondered why they gave Ziggy such legs? The sole part I mean - he must be sliding around like a cow on ice in those things, not to mention the loud clanking that must get in the way of the sneaky infiltration mission(s) he gets.

    On the other hand, thick rubber boots might prevent the superawesome flamethrower kick...
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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by katimus_prime on Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:29 pm

    I think they were trying to design someone that looked like a machine, despite the level of technology the rest of Xenosaga employed. I think, while not exactly practical, it helped put the setting in perspective. It's the ZS3 bathing suit design that I wonder about, actually. Did he get those parts back?


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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by Yikari on Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:27 am

    ^
    I think they just thrown out everything that had to do with logic and went full retard. Choco said something along the lines of "that was a joke, don't think too hard about it" if I remember it right.
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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by kare_reiko on Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:01 am

    Yikari wrote:^
    I think they just thrown out everything that had to do with logic and went full retard. Choco said something along the lines of "that was a joke, don't think too hard about it" if I remember it right.

    Poor Ziggy, he really don't have easy life, first PP, now swimsuit... XD


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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by Neosmith on Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:31 am

    My brainstorming - thanks for this topic.

    I like how we can put a lot of different things here.

    Digression: in my fanfic mind, characters never sit around while stuff just happens around them. I mean, seriously, the Jr./Albedo confrontation, where everyone other than those two turns into a statue epitomizes how problematic the narrative of Episode 1 really is.

    Here's one of the many ideas that I have for a proper animated series based on Xenosaga:

    Chaos is (initially) an antagonist and another android.

    He is named in this version of the story KAOS - the KOS-MOS Archetype Operating System.

    KAOS would be primarily KOS-MOS' antagonist, taking over the role of T-Elos in Episode 3.

    Some basic backstory:

    U-TIC succeeds in stealing Archetype KOS-MOS, allowing Dr. Sellers to complete it as KAOS. KAOS enters the picture by basically blasting KOS-MOS out of the sky when Albedo stages his attack on the Kukai Foundation. They engage in a prolonged battle that causes widespread destruction and culminates with KOS-MOS being beaten and broken, requiring her armor frame to be repaired.

    Let me know if you guys think this is interesting and would like some elaboration - like why would I want chaos like this.
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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by katimus_prime on Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:59 pm

    @Neosmith wrote:

    U-TIC succeeds in stealing Archetype KOS-MOS, allowing Dr. Sellers to complete it as KAOS. KAOS enters the picture by basically blasting KOS-MOS out of the sky when Albedo stages his attack on the Kukai Foundation. They engage in a prolonged battle that causes widespread destruction and culminates with KOS-MOS being beaten and broken, requiring her armor frame to be repaired.

    Let me know if you guys think this is interesting and would like some elaboration - like why would I want chaos like this.

    It's cool to see something like this.  I always thought chaos' role was a little bit too vague, from beginning to end.  KAOS/KOS-MOS as a dichotomy seems a lot more interesting to me than T-elos/KOS-MOS from a symbolic standpoint, since KOS-MOS is derived from Order and chaos is obviously Chaos, instead of Order (KOS-MOS) and Purpose (T-elos).  With KAOS rooted in KOS-MOS' development, he's no longer floating high above all the other characters in I DUNNO land, so he'd have a lot more reason to connect with Shion, Allen, Kevin and KOS-MOS and could still have his canon purpose underneath of everything else.

    I haven't poked at this idea for a while, but I had thought of a "bad ending" scenario branching off from the Elsa in which Cherenkov was able to successfully steal MOMO back for U-TIC.  I had plans of at least making it to Senir, introducing characters like Richard and Hermann a lot more face-to-face and illustrating the Commander's general "other"-ness among the Ormus faithful despite having the appearance of a normal human.  Of course, from this, the Cathedral Ship would be rerouted (perhaps even follow him) to Senir, and it would be Margulis and Pellegri instead of Shion and Co. that navigate it and learn more about what the ZLE did to wreck the universe just a little bit worse than it was.  

    Totally opposite is the headcanon where the Cathedral Ship scenario happens a little later and Cherenkov actually joins the crew of the Elsa after deciding that U-TIC is never going to accept him.  Since I've never given it all that much thought, a prolonged joining of the Elsa crew would have him being more of the mercenary muscle Matthews could use to get a little bit further paid up from his debts, and a short term might just be an extra person to wash the dishes (I think it's a little universal across my different headcanons that Cherenkov is a neat freak, which is at odds with the mess his super soldier abilities make in a physical fight).

    I've also started to think a little bit on the sexuality of the characters in my headcanons, and it's less a matter of what they prefer (no gender preference but still interested) as a matter of IF they prefer (completely disinterested).  Since I tend to not have a gender preference, not a whole lot of the characters I write for do, either, so it comes out as "oh by the way, not straight," kind of like how Neil Gaiman sort of sprinkles things in.  I am really into Rule 63ing my Commanders in my art, but I've never done any sort of actual story with them.


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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by stitchedmoon on Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:15 am

    @Yikari wrote:Kinda random: am I the only one who wondered why they gave Ziggy such legs? The sole part I mean - he must be sliding around like a cow on ice in those things, not to mention the loud clanking that must get in the way of the sneaky infiltration mission(s) he gets.

    Yeah, I always thought it was kind of hilarious that he was supposed to be invisible on Pleroma but meanwhile he's stomping around like someone just dropped the bass. XD  Like Kat said, I guess it was supposed to make him look old-fashioned (and maybe show that he's extra badass for hobbling around on a scrap heap of outdated technology and still getting stuff done like a boss).  I also kind of wonder if he looked any different before his current upgrade(s)--like, I think it was implied that he's been gradually swapping out his organic bits for synthetics and getting repaired and maintained and stuff, so maybe he looked more fully human at some point, or maybe not. :P

    Oh god the swimsuit.  I think I remember reading somewhere in the database or something that most combat cyborgs have an extra Realian body lying around that they can switch into when they're not doing missions, but "LOLOLOL J/K" makes so much more sense.

    Another thing of interest: it was also mentioned that Ziggy (well, Jan technically) became a Testament instead of killing himself in a previous recurrence of the universe, so of course one has to speculate what that was like. *w*

    And Kat, I love your Cherenkov headcanons, particularly the second one.  I'd have loved to see him spend more time with the Elsa crew, or just more time on-screen in general.  <3


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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by Yikari on Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:00 am

    @Neosmith wrote:
    Digression: in my fanfic mind, characters never sit around while stuff just happens around them. I mean, seriously, the Jr./Albedo confrontation, where everyone other than those two turns into a statue epitomizes how problematic the narrative of Episode 1 really is.

    Wholeheartedly agree. Xenosaga is certainly not the only game to suffer from this problem, but, given it is set up as a character-driven story, it is glaringly obvious when that happens.

    XXX

    I'd guess the reason would be chaos not having one bit of relevance to what is happening on the screen in about 90% of the game - at least that is my own motivation for all the strange ideas I cook up about him Very Happy

    Seems like a solid 'what if?' to get into. Some questions that would spring in my mind if I were to read a fanfic desciption like this that I, as a reader, would expect the story to adress (may seem too obvious but, in my opinion, still need to be asked):

    - What of current KOS-MOS?

    Yes, canon doesn't specify the details of the Archetype incident (to put it mildly), but I was under the impression that the most delicate - and 'black box'-y - parts, like the AI and the Gnosis-chewing jewel-like object in her abdomen, for example, were transferred 'as is' from the Archetype and all the work done by Shion and her subordinates went from there.

    If U-TIC nicked all that, how would KOS-MOS turn out by the time the story starts? Both in ass-kicking and mental aspects.

    - Kevin. What happened to him? Did he survive and had to alter his plans? Maybe he is still the head of Shion's group and continues his work for whatever reason? (Could explain how KOS-MOS was still made operational with Archetype completely missing). Or are there are simply no such things as 'Testaments' in this story and the dude died as all humans do?

    - Memories. Does KAOS have any recollection of the Archetype incident or anything before it? There is no indication in canon that KOS-MOS ever did, but, well, you need to make drama somehow. Same question for the new KOS-MOS. While I'm not seeing Shion changing her mother-hen ways towards her (although a different take on that could certainly be interesting), the altered 'version history', so to speak, could very well alter KOS-MOS' behaviour towards Shion a great deal as well.

    In a more broad sense, is the plan about summoning a consciousness of a great miracle worker from ages past out of the 'sea of souls' (or an imprint/echo of one they have left in the information field or whatever;

    it all depends on how the story handles Gnosis/collective subconscious/etc) via KOS-MOS is still on? Or maybe it didn't ever exist in the first place?

    XXX

    As for the Cathedral Ship, I like to imagine how it would turn out if it didn't happen at all. I mean, I like Andrew's flashbacks to bits regardless of how they were handled, I like the design of a good deal of the locations there, I very much like the Beach of Nothingness scene that ends it all, but it is way too disjointed overall for my taste.

    In my headcanon Andrew would have enough reason to go through his indoctrination's cascade failiure without getting stuck into a mass of anomalous jelly. (And would likely not be the character touched by a Gnosis, to further mix things up. Or maybe not, it could be interesting either way).

    XXX

    My own ideas about about possible ways to spice up the KOS-MOS/T-elos conflict aren't really all that great. Hmm...

    For example, imagine if T-elos (or whatever character ends up in her role) could successfully pass as KOS-MOS. KOS-MOS sends her 'reports to Vector HQ' regularly, does she not? What if T-elos had access to that archive of data? The signature teleporting weaponry and virtually identical (on the outside at least) body could surely be adjusted to match KOS-MOS' likeness with the technology the setting has available regardless of the way you decide to handle Wilhelm/Kevin/other Testaments and their plans.

    Bam! Just like that you can pull plot shenanigans akin to Kukai foundation arrest via fabricated evidence in Ep.I, intra-party conflict for much more tangible reasons (for example, Shion walks in on Jin confronting 'KOS-MOS' on his suspicions with Ziggy as back-up; the scene looks like they were going to jump at each others' throats if she wasn't there. Instant drama!), Shion's thoughts on the matter of her creation being used to screw over fellow humans instead of solving the global issue of Gnosis threat, etc, etc.

    Neosmith

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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by Neosmith on Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:41 pm

    It's cool to see something like this. I always thought chaos' role was a little bit too vague, from beginning to end. KAOS/KOS-MOS as a dichotomy seems a lot more interesting to me than T-elos/KOS-MOS from a symbolic standpoint, since KOS-MOS is derived from Order and chaos is obviously Chaos, instead of Order (KOS-MOS) and Purpose (T-elos). With KAOS rooted in KOS-MOS' development, he's no longer floating high above all the other characters in I DUNNO land, so he'd have a lot more reason to connect with Shion, Allen, Kevin and KOS-MOS and could still have his canon purpose underneath of everything else.

    Wow. I'm happy to hear some positive feedback on the idea.

    Kat, you've pretty much summed up the key reasons for my fanfic alterations to chaos. I mean, the guy is supposed to be KOS-MOS' antithesis, yet they share minimal screen time and never really come into any sort of opposition. Re-interpreting him as KAOS would allow him to have a specific role in the plot and possess a direct tie to KOS-MOS' story and character arc.

    In addition, I really find that this would clear up a lot of plausibility issues. I mean, Xenosaga is supposedly set in a universe where everything is connected via a vast network. How then, in this technologically advanced time and place, where information can be easily transmitted across lightyears in an instant, does a Guy who doesn't really bother hiding his God-like powers, fly under the radar?  

    That is, it really makes no sense at all that Chaos can just hang out on the Elsa or the Foundation, destroy Gnosis or manipulate reality whenever the plot calls for it, and have everybody except Allen, especially KOS-MOS, just accept that at face value. So, I think this would be a good way to really ground his superpowers, to allow him to display a lot of abilities without raising any questions.

    Finally, one other reason I'd want to do that is to make sure the story has stakes. What I mean is that if you have both Chaos and KOS-MOS on your team, then there is really no sense of danger in the story, there's no challenge left. These two are so powerful that they could easily take out any enemy you have opposing the main characters. A fleet of Gnosis? KOS-MOS can just X-Buster them out of existence. And that would really make everyone else comparatively useless. So, having KAOS as an antagonist would really help balance things out. If he can take out the most powerful member of your team, then all best are off.

    So, a few specific points:

    - What of current KOS-MOS?

    Yes, canon doesn't specify the details of the Archetype incident (to put it mildly), but I was under the impression that the most delicate - and 'black box'-y - parts, like the AI and the Gnosis-chewing jewel-like object in her abdomen, for example, were transferred 'as is' from the Archetype and all the work done by Shion and her subordinates went from there.

    If U-TIC nicked all that, how would KOS-MOS turn out by the time the story starts? Both in ass-kicking and mental aspects.

    KOS-MOS turns out more or less as she does in Episode 1 arsenal-wise - I mean, the X-Buster cannon can just simply be a component of her equipment. There are some key differences though. I envision KOS-MOS without a garter or any of those Hentai-design elements. My view is that KOS-MOS is a modern knight-errant, an Azure Valkyrie clad in armor.

    She also is programmed with the so-called "Azimov Law", which prevents her from deliberately killing human beings. However, her approach to everything is based on logic. As such, she is not good at handling situations where logic fails or when events occur out of her control.

    KOS-MOS also isn't supposed to be up for multiple versions, unlike that dropped 'commercial model' stuff in Episode 1. She is considered one of the most powerful weapons in the known galaxy because she houses one of two ES Engines, which essentially provides her with a virtually infinite amount of energy. Hence, she is flight capable (using her own energy) off the bat and has no need to replenish her energy supplies.

    Kevin. What happened to him? Did he survive and had to alter his plans? Maybe he is still the head of Shion's group and continues his work for whatever reason? (Could explain how KOS-MOS was still made operational with Archetype completely missing). Or are there are simply no such things as 'Testaments' in this story and the dude died as all humans do?
    The Archetype Incident doesn't feature the Archetype activating and going berserk. What happens is that the U-TIC Soldiers successfully break into the facility and steal the KAOS body and maintenance capsule. Kevin tries to intervene by grabbing a gun out of a soldier's hands and opening fire on the intruders. He is shot in the head by their leader (aka Cherenkov or his equivalent in this new version) in retaliation.

    This gives Shion a huge shock to the system and compels her to finish the second KOS-MOS so as to honor Kevin's memory. This also leads to some interesting conflict with Cherenkov when she discovers him to be Kevin's murderer.

    Same question for the new KOS-MOS. While I'm not seeing Shion changing her mother-hen ways towards her (although a different take on that could certainly be interesting), the altered 'version history', so to speak, could very well alter KOS-MOS' behaviour towards Shion a great deal as well.

    In a more broad sense, is the plan about summoning a consciousness of a great miracle worker from ages past out of the 'sea of souls' (or an imprint/echo of one they have left in the information field or whatever;

    it all depends on how the story handles Gnosis/collective subconscious/etc) via KOS-MOS is still on? Or maybe it didn't ever exist in the first place?
    KOS-MOS and Shion do not possess the exact same dynamic as in the game. The basic idea is that Shion wants KOS-MOS to be the ideal that Kevin saw her as - a protector of mankind. Her view of KOS-MOS starts to fray after Virgil's accidental death.

    And waking up KOS-MOS 'true self' is a part of the story, yes.
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    Yikari

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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by Yikari on Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:44 am

    This sounds positively tasty. I wouldn't mind reading that someday, that's for certain.

    I'm not entirely sure how I could help you though, Neosmith. You already seem to have a good deal of things sorted out. So I'll just list my thoughts as they come tumbling out of my head, if you don't mind.

    - While sticking a functionally unending power supply on a human-sized, X-Buster equipped, flight-capable combatant seems like a risky move (too much super can be bad for a story, in my opinion), it may very well become warranted if the opposition is up to snuff in the weapons race.

    But the question of 'why do we need these other doods if KOS-MOS can handle everything by herself?' remains. Yes, she is not exactly invincible, especially with the firepower her counterpart is gonna to unleash and can't be everywhere at once, but what about the times other party characters have to make do without her?

    If someone (or something) wants them dead, I doubt they would hold back on the account of KOS-MOS being unable to participate. How other - much squishier - personnel are going to survive on their own? Will every one of them have to get a major power-up to keep up with the raising bar of 'character weight' (if you'll forgive me using tvtropes speak)?

    - So, from what I understand, Shion remakes KOS-MOS in a very human-like manner using what she heard from Kevin as guidelines.

    (I don't believe I can adequately express my joy and elation at seeing "without a garter or any of those Hentai-design elements" words anywhere. H-doujinshi will make that for any popular enough character anyway, why do they even bother?)

    Given the description, I imagine Elsa's crew taking the whole thing for a spacesuit at a first glance. If a bit fancy-looking and of non-standart coloration. And totally lacking a breathing apparatus of any kind... or anything protection living tissue of the face from outer space hazards, for that matte- it moved! OH SHI-!

    I guess the basic principle of armoring humans would apply: hardened elements over parts that don't bend and more flexible arrangements over parts that do. Except that KOS-MOS may very well have broader range of motion on her joints than what would be considered healthy for a human.

    Should KOS-MOS be able to pass for a human, at least visually (her behaviour would most likely give her away anyway, but still)?

    What about teleporting weaponry? Would it warp in seamlessly over armor (I assume here that there would be some armor to be had) or is she gonna have to make a loadout choice between handy armament teleportation and extra protection? Would enemies be able to 'jam' the process with a right set of equipment? (I bet Doctus is aware of a good deal of research into that possibilty at the very least, or maybe even has a development branch under her own wing).

    I very much recommend looking into Xeno Emission's collection of weapon sketches to get some fight scenes ideas flowing - the amount of dakka contained within would be enough to fill in a W40k space marine armory. They even had something like 'Lightning Claws' in there! (Aslo, pilebunkers).

    EDIT: Speaking of W40k armory, someone already came to that conclusion and did a sample of that:
    Spoiler:

    Force fields? I seem to recall Ep.II's mechs displaying something like that in combat when hit. And maybe mentioned in generic techno-babble in chaos-Canaan interaction in the prologue. Maybe. I can't really decide which flavour of force fields I like more, so I don't even know exactly what I'm suggesting here. :D

    Last, but not least: I don't think I've ever seen KOS-MOS killing anyone with her hair anywhere. IMHO, needs to happen. Built-in function of elctrostatic/thermal/matter-shift/whatever discharge she has to let out after doing something really strenuous that gets to be used in a 'creative' manner or simple strangulation after a fight scene climax when both combatants are on their last legs - doesn't matter how, really.

    Ugh, it seems that I don't really have anything of interest to add. I hope at least something out of that will help you.

    Neosmith

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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by Neosmith on Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:37 pm

    This sounds positively tasty. I wouldn't mind reading that someday, that's for certain.

    Glad to hear it. I might publish some of my "Bible" someday. We'll see.

    I'm not entirely sure how I could help you though, Neosmith. You already seem to have a good deal of things sorted out. So I'll just list my thoughts as they come tumbling out of my head, if you don't mind.

    I'm just glad to hear what people think.  Getting feedback never hurts and I'll probably incorporate some suggestions.  

    While sticking a functionally unending power supply on a human-sized, X-Buster equipped, flight-capable combatant seems like a risky move (too much super can be bad for a story, in my opinion), it may very well become warranted if the opposition is up to snuff in the weapons race.

    But the question of 'why do we need these other doods if KOS-MOS can handle everything by herself?' remains. Yes, she is not exactly invincible, especially with the firepower her counterpart is gonna to unleash and can't be everywhere at once, but what about the times other party characters have to make do without her?

    If someone (or something) wants them dead, I doubt they would hold back on the account of KOS-MOS being unable to participate. How other - much squishier - personnel are going to survive on their own? Will every one of them have to get a major power-up to keep up with the raising bar of 'character weight' (if you'll forgive me using tvtropes speak)?

    I always think of the "Superman Problem" when it comes to these things. The more powerful your character, the less you can actually challenge him. Which is why I would never have a main character capable of teleporting - that opens up a whole can of logistical worms.  

    KOS-MOS basically in my adaptation would never be a deus ex machine. She has restrictions, such as the fact that she can't harm human beings willingly. So, if say, U-TIC human soldiers were to board the Elsa, she would be either useless or incapacitated, requiring other, less powerful characters like Shion, Ziggy, etc. to take care of the problem.

    In other words, I would try to maintain threats relative to the characters' power levels. Specific situations would differ, of course.

    Also, just because her energy supply is limitless, it doesn't mean her system can't break down, either physically or psychologically. A good analogy would be a car that never runs out of fuel. Just because it doesn't run out doesn't mean it can't be destroyed, damaged or stopped.

    Additionally, I would try to ensure that not everyone of our main cast would take part in combat. I mean, Momo, by virtue of her role in the plot, doesn't belong logically anywhere near a battlefield. It makes no sense for her to try to go out and fight Gnosis, when she's so frail and carries the most important data in the universe. So, I would take steps to make sure she is integral to the research and planning of various campaigns, to the politics of the world. Ziggy would have to take on a bodyguard position for her, so he wouldn't be actively involved in large-scale combat either.

    So other characters would manage to make do without her quite well, especially in non-combat aspects of the story, all the personal and political intrigue and plots that KOS-MOS can't partake in directly.

    Jr. (rather, Robin, in my version) would be a key player in the combat area, as he could command a group of armed men, and he's a living weapon with telekinesis and other capabilities that make him extremely hard to kill.

    Shion would become involved by proxy to KOS-MOS, but she wouldn't willingly throw herself into danger. Though I will say that Shion in my version would never wield the MWS and instead would gradually develop spiritual/superhuman abilities that would allow her to rival some of the more powerful players in the field. In particular, I always imagine a duel between her and Albedo...

    Some people would die, though. Allen is probably not gonna last long, unless he keeps out of harm's way.  

    Should KOS-MOS be able to pass for a human, at least visually (her behaviour would most likely give her away anyway, but still)?
    Probably not. But she wouldn't look so inhuman so as to be alienating.

    What about teleporting weaponry? Would it warp in seamlessly over armor (I assume here that there would be some armor to be had) or is she gonna have to make a loadout choice between handy armament teleportation and extra protection? Would enemies be able to 'jam' the process with a right set of equipment? (I bet Doctus is aware of a good deal of research into that possibilty at the very least, or maybe even has a development branch under her own wing).
    I'm kinda trying to veer away from teleporting weaponry in general, so there would be no 'transfer phase cannon' type stuff at all.

    To me, KOS-MOS' energy manipulation ability would be all the arsenal she needs, in addition to her right arm being capable of transforming into different armaments, like blades and stabbing weapons.

    I very much recommend looking into Xeno Emission's collection of weapon sketches to get some fight scenes ideas flowing - the amount of dakka contained within would be enough to fill in a W40k space marine armory. They even had something like 'Lightning Claws' in there! (Aslo, pilebunkers).
    That's a cool idea. I'll look into it.

    EDIT: Speaking of W40k armory, someone already came to that conclusion and did a sample of that:
    Spoiler:
    Nice!

    Force fields? I seem to recall Ep.II's mechs displaying something like that in combat when hit. And maybe mentioned in generic techno-babble in chaos-Canaan interaction in the prologue. Maybe. I can't really decide which flavour of force fields I like more, so I don't even know exactly what I'm suggesting here. Very Happy
    Maybe. It would have to a key moment in the story though.

    Last, but not least: I don't think I've ever seen KOS-MOS killing anyone with her hair anywhere. IMHO, needs to happen. Built-in function of elctrostatic/thermal/matter-shift/whatever discharge she has to let out after doing something really strenuous that gets to be used in a 'creative' manner or simple strangulation after a fight scene climax when both combatants are on their last legs - doesn't matter how, really.
    Lol. Never considered her hair to be a deadly weapon, but why not?
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    Yikari

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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by Yikari on Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:31 pm

    @Neosmith wrote:
    Allen is probably not gonna last long  

    Poor Allen, he gets no break! :D

    Speaking of him, personally, I've felt that Ep.III was wrong in making his moment of awesome fight scene related. It a). gave off a smelly 'you won't get a chance to even be noticed by the girl you like until you brutally murder someone(thing) or a dozen' tone and b). didn't jive with what we 've seen of him before that.

    There is a scene in Ep.II at the end of 'Shion decides to steal a E.S. (and Wilhelm totally did not just blatantly let her do it)' sequence where Allen fumbles with the mech's controls and lets out a burst of fire in the general direction of their realian security personnel pursuers. There is no real indication if the scene meant to portray him as fumbling with the control interface because of his complete lack of training and nervous nature in general  and missing by a quite a big margin while firing almost point-blank (by armored combat standarts at least) in the result, or if he deliberately chose to miss the guards because he knew what would happen to them even with the most glancing of hits and decided it was not necessary.

    This is of course a load of headcanon, but I think that building on the latter interpretation would be the key to making something interesting out of Allen regardless of what the rest of the story is about.

    Same with MOMO. While I laugh at the mental image of her beating squads of soldiers with a nightstick into submission, she really is 'not a combat model' in the actual plot.

    Shion not throwing herself headlong into danger sounds... strange. But it is nothing some character development can't fix.

    XXX

    A random thought: anyone remembers the scene from Terminator 2 where Arnie lifts up a toddler by the scruff of their shirt and simply... observes, for the lack of a better word?

    Does anyone think it could be adapted to star KOS-MOS with intention of fleshing out her behaviour?

    Addendum: make it a character exploration for the whole party. Suppose they find a very young child amongst the many catastrophes they go through the course of the story and have to care for them for a certain period of time before it becomes possible to drop them off on somebody else? How do you think they will behave?

    I'd say MOMO would be the most enthusiastic of the lot, but chaos would be the only one that actually knows what to do and is not bothered by it. Maybe Ziggy would find it calming and easy on the nerves because the toddler is a first human being that did not try to pick at his brain in a long while. :)

    As for KOS-MOS herself, I'd think the toddler not conforming to any of the instructions on human contact she was given (who would think to bother with child care on a non-emergency rescue system, really?) would be a... well, not a shock, but a serious challenge to say the least.

    Bonus round: Albedo, in the same situation. Discuss.
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    LadyTwi
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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by LadyTwi on Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:22 pm

    (My memory's a bit hazy on the details of the games, so bear with me here)

    Hmm, if Albedo were to find a young child and have to care for them for whatever reason, I would imagine he'd just drag them along with him until he found someone to dump them on. He doesn't want to get close to people because he can basically live forever, so he probably wouldn't want any kind of bond to form between him and the kid. Plus, he's got better things to do.

    However, if the kid reminded him of someone from his childhood it could be a different story. I know he felt guilty about Sakura's death and he loved Rubedo, so if the kid reminded him of either one of them he could get an unwanted attachment.

    Oh lord trying to write this reminds me of how long it's been since I played these games. XD


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    Yikari

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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by Yikari on Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:54 am

    While my first guess about Albedo being in charge of anyone's care, let alone a child, would be 'better not try to imagine what would happen when he got bored', for some reason I think that the notion of a pristine mind, unblemished by stereotypes and other forms of indoctrination human society tries to impart on everyone before they are old enough to know better - a mind he is free to mould into whatever he wishes - will catch his attention.

    Thus my own entry would be a collection of black humor 'Daddy's little villain' outtakes in which Albedo shows his charge how to be as 'awesome' as he is.

    This kinda denies Albedo's characterisation as something else than a raging lunatic with obsession problems, but, well... I like Albedo as a mentally unbalanced villain;

    in my opinion, he is one of very few videogame characters that manage to pull off 'crazy' without looking silly, so I don't really want to imagine him in any other way. Wierd, huh?
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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by Yikari on Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:02 pm

    About re: Shion's weapon of choice. What first came to my mind when I saw the thing in action was this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7wOX2WqbXE

    (couldn't find a full version that wasn't restricted from viewing at other sites than youtube, sorry)

    So I'm not sure the idea couldn't be salvaged into something a bit less ridiculous looking than a hugely asymmetrical super robot fist - because cool factor. And less non-combatant characters closing into brawling range with huge monstrosities that have been seen, you know, multiplying by zero everyone they touch is always a plus in my book.

    I am desperately trying not to utter 'more believable' because that will just bring up Jin's absolutely mad :pirate: ownage with his katana.

    XXX

    I'm not saying I did not like Jin's katana or him butchering untold amounts of enemies with it, but if someone were to try and make something a bit more serious than what a hypothetical crossover between MGS and DMC might spawn... Hmm...

    Well, for starters, there are other weapon types the samurai character archetype has 'legit' access to. Including the composite bows MOMO gets. So that Jin could GAR his way through the enemy hordes. So there is always that.

    Although, since I've liked the outfit he is first introduced in and don't feel the need to humor that silly 'maximum one firearm wielder per party' JRPG convention, for the purposes of an asskicking scene he prepared for beforehand, I am more inclined put him in the same gear a soldier in the story's setting would get but with his trusty blade at his side in addition to that, to be unleashed when appropriate. Kinda along the line of those reports of American soldiers seemingly cornering an enemy officer only to get bisected together with the rifle they tried to shield themselves with during WWII.

    It could be even combined with the above. I positively don't see a single reason this humble bibliophile couldn't take off the rack by his side (what seems to be) an antique room decoration and scewer those who intruded upon his home dead and be able to handle a modern firearm in an adequate manner in the same story continuity.

    Ideally, I'd try to emphasise his keen mind and years of relentless training instead of some kind of magical abilities or unique artifacts, so stealth, ambush tactics, explosive traps, etc. Given Ziggy's introduction, I think they could work on that in tandem. Jr. was also groomed for special forces, but I can't picture him abandoning his handguns for anything, to be honest. Well, maybe for a sawed-off double-barrelled shotgun. Maybe.

    XXX

    chaos should not disappear his opponents with a touch if he wants to keep his supernatural attributes down. So, how about his current fake ID as a war veteran who served with Matthew, for example? Some backstory of being able to survive when the situation goes tits up - to better explain how Helmer came to assigning him that mission where he met Canaan.

    It does put him in the 'firearms' category at least until he is forced to deviate from the role he chose though. So... a firm proponent of 'more dakka', if not to the extent of the uber X-Buster?

    Uh, 'm drawing a blank with him.

    XXX

    I wouldn't change Ziggy too much. Less arm-blades, more rubber soles and semi-auto heavy cannons maybe? Although I do remember reading about how a 'lightning gun' could possibly work in real life,

    [two blue lasers parallel and offset a certain apart from each other turn on, the air in the direction the user wants to hit gets ionized with a loud crack, something akin to 'Chain Lightning' from Heroes of Might and Magic goes off;

    including the 'hits the user and/or their friendlies if there are no other applicable targets nearby' part]

    could be used to add some flavour.

    XXX

    All kinds of strange things must have been suggested for KOS-MOS over the internetz (I remember seeing her wield a 'laser whip' akin to that one in Johnny Mnemonic movie or those bendy lightsabers in Star Wars' expanded universe gif on deviantart the other day, for example), but one of the ideas I've had when she gets rebuilt again in Ep.III I hadn't seen mentioned anywhere yet, so I'd like to share.

    The core of this suggestion did not exactly visit me during my Xenosaga playthrough, it had existed in my head for some time before that. But when Professor mentioned some of the fruits of his super giant mecha research being used for repairs and some of Elsa's crew members jokingly warned to check for 'drill arms' afterwards, I really could not stop myself from going off on a Gurren Lagann crossover tangent.

    Specifically, that part where the machine Simon activates attaches itself to another machine, pierces its innards with freaky mechanical tentacles and repurposes the victim to suit the parasite's needs. Quite possibly overriding any existing AI and/or flesh-and-blood pilots and forcing them watch what it does with the new swag it got its hands on. Or maybe it just tears them apart for information and spare parts quickly without too much torture. (I secretely imagine this is what happens when Megaman 'adapts' the abilities of the boss he just killed too).

    Yeah, a bunch of headcanon, but it's not like I could stop what my head was thinking at that time. Either way, could be a nice ability to use in a story on any 'technological' character if super miniature phase transfer bust cannons do not fit your tastes. That one mutated mech boss on Woglinde seems to be a victim of something similar too, by the way.
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    LadyTwi
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    Re: Would you like to partake in some recreative brainstormi

    Post by LadyTwi on Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:41 am

    Hee I do like the thought of Albedo playing some mind games with the kid when he gets bored. It wouldn't hurt to have some fun when he gets bored. >D

    Now, I know this has nothing to do with anything, but I'd like to post up some thoughts on Richard and Hermann. Unfortunately, being pretty minor characters, we don't know much about them, only what was given through the Ep. III Database and the Outer File drama CD (I don't think it has any new info backstory-wise, but we get more of their characterizations). I don't think the DS game gives any new info either? (except the official website gives their ages: Richard is 14 and Hermann is 25)

    Anyway, there are a few things that have always interested me.
    #1: The nature and circumstances of Richard's parents' and sister's accident that caused their deaths.
    #2: Hermann's relationship to Captain Matthews (Hermann was in Matthews' Navy detachment).

    #1: The nature and circumstances of Richard's parents' and sister's accident that caused their deaths.

    I've mulled over this one for a long time. I get the feeling that Richard's family has power, since they have a whole 'nother family that serves them, and since he was able to become a Chief Inquisitor at such a young age. Thus, sometimes I like to think that it wasn't an accident at all, and that someone was trying to wipe out his family and staged it as an accident. Obviously they failed, since Richard survived, however he was present since he witnessed at least his sister's death.

    On the other hand, it could have just been an accident, but that's so boring. ;P

    #2: Hermann's relationship to Captain Matthews (Hermann was in Matthews' Navy detachment).

    At some point in time, he was "a private first-class in the Galaxy Federation Navy and stationed in Sergeant Matthews' detachment". In the Outer File, we see a flashback of when Matthews ran into Hermann after they had been disbanded. Hermann says, "I've never forgotten how much trouble I caused you when I first started out. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you, Sergeant."

    Later, we clearly see Hermann get upset when he realises he's attacked his former sergeant, and he expresses that he'd like to find a way to secure MOMO without having to attack Matthews again.

    Hermann has a lot of respect for his Sergeant. I like to take the line "I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you, Sergeant."

    as having a double meaning: Matthews literally saved Hermann's life (at least once) and also that Matthews left quite the impression on Hermann, and indeed helped him to become the person he is today.

    I'm not really sure why Hermann was in the Navy to begin with, though I assume he had some training with weapons beforehand since I assume pledging loyalty to Richard includes protecting him with weapons. However Hermann most likely didn't have any experience in the field, and so I like to imagine him being a bit on the incompetent side and running off and causing all sorts of problems for Matthews. XD Actually, maybe Hermann was in the Navy to get him used to field combat?

    In conclusion, I think way too much about characters that don't matter. XD Anyway I have more but I will debate whether I can be bothered typing it up.


    _________________
    Bona fama in tenebris proprium splendorem tenet.
    Resident Richard and Hermann fan! If anyone stumbles across any info or fanart of them, PM me and I will love you forever.
    Avatar artwork is by stitchedmoon! <3

      Current date/time is Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:02 pm